Who trains these ideots?

About 25 years ago, I was the Quality Assurance Manager at a manufacturer of positive displacement pumps, we had a small number of apprentices who went to college full time for a number of months and on their return were put to work in production. They were hopelessly out of their depth when confronted with machining components on a lathe. My office was adjacent to the factory floor and the apprentices knew that they could always come to me and get whatever assistance I could give them, quite often I was out at their machines advising speeds and feeds so that they could achieve the required surface finishes. I didn’t serve a machine shop apprenticeship but drew on my learning when I had spent considerably more time at college than these apprentices. The management of the company were quite happy to take on apprentices and send them to college for a few months and that was considered an apprenticeship, from what I have read in this article, little appears to have changed and probably has got worse, a sad state for our engineering which used to have first class apprenticeships.
Dave W

"Anyone know where I can obtain quantities of eye of toad and toes of lizard?"

Ian, I've found that eye of potato and tooth of comb make an effective substitute.

As for the decline in apprenticeships and engineering generally, it's not to be wondered at. Successive governments have shifted the UK towards a 'service economy' where I take in your washing and you take in my washing, and we both get rich. True wealth creation comes only from what you make, mine or grow, but the people who do that are seen as costing money, whereas the people who manipulate money are seen as the wealth generators. Unfortunately, the people in power are mostly drawn from the money manipulating class and have no interest beyond skimming off their share of the profits.

George B.

A classic example of incorrect training. They did not need a long appreticeship. They probably spent time at college learning tasks that had no relevance to the work that you needed. ie they may have been using a milling machine.

What should have happened is that the company should have sent them to be trained to turn their particular components. They would have been far more use.

Do you think that in WW11 the girls on the lathes were trained in every part of a Spitfire engine? No they were taught to make a part. In the same way the training needs to match what industry needs.

If later those apprentices need to use a different machine, then they get sent to learn how to use it. That way one gets skills in a short time & industry gets what it needs fast. Over the years techinques change. Why spend a week learning how to sharpen HSS cutters, if the firm only uses tipped cutters? Training needs to adapt for that & industry needs to send its staff to update at regular intervals.

That way we can compete with the world.

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 19/08/2020 12:57:17

Hi, Circlip (Ian)

Don't know about the various Harry Potter accessories, but I PMed you with a method how to cancel the Service Warning. I know there are several methods used, depending on the model/year. I think I have sent you the Sandero method, but let me know if not, and I'll try again.

Keith

A few years ago we made some special gearboxes for the MOD. A simple bevel gearbox with one input shaft and one double ended output shaft, simple!

The MOD fley an "expert" up from London to check them out and sign the acceptance paperwork. Well I never saw such an incompetent person. He checked the specification from his paperwork and couldn't work out the ratio of input turns to output turns. We had assigned him an apprentice to help him and after about half an hour the apprentice came to me and said "That guy is a complete *********!***** I went to see what was going on and had to agree as the guy was measuring the turns of one of the output shafts and could not get it to agree with the other end of the same shaft!!

I was able to put up with this for about 30 minutes when I lost the plot and ordered the guy from the premises, he had used a taxi from the airport 30 miles away and the taxi was supposed to wait for him all day if needed.

I phoned his boss in the MOD and said I had never seen such incompetence and I was told he was the best guy they had! I said "well I wouldn't like to meet your worst"

I told them I would not supply the gearboxes and cancelled the order there and then. Well! all hell broke loose and they said "You can't do that as we are desperate for those boxes" My reply was "I will see you in Court!"

Next day a very nice phone call from the MOD big cheese pacified me and that afternoon four senior engineers flew up and checked out the boxes, in about 30 minutes they were checked and the paperwork signed.

On asking about the first engineer I was told he was their boss and did not have a clue about engineering!

Sometimes you wonder how the world has survived when people like that are in charge!

Sadly all of us of a certain age can recall similar tales.
I did did a technician apprenticeship 40 years ago and I am still benefiting from skills learned on the job, whether at work or in this ME hobby. The college aspect not so. I would say over 95% of what was learned at college has never been used in anger. The only exception being Optical Loss calculations, which I did in 1987. Landed a job in 2000 where they were darned useful.

Edited By Stuart Bridger on 19/08/2020 15:18:28

Usually known as Peter's Principle. Promoted beyond their level of competence.

When our Director left, there was a general reshuffle, leaving my colleague and I without a superior. My colleague was no good for the job as he only had 20 years experience of the components involved.

The replacement was a lovely young chap, with a degree in recent History. He had never had any dealings with the parts for which we were responsible,.so was ideal to be in charge of a £3M per annum spend on the most technically advanced components. In the eyes of someone!

Lovely guy, charming, better qualified than either of us, but an embarrassment when dealing outside the company, or even inside it.

Later, I used to mentor undergraduates on their gap year. Some were practical and willing to learn. Thank goodness, only two knew it all and were unwilling to learn or understand. The good ones rapidly became capable of being given a job and left to do it, almost unsupervised.

One, soon after joining us, with his degree, was sent overseas to show the parent company how to perform a particular task.

It just depends upon the will to learn.

Howard

My experience of college was totally different. I really appreciate the luck I had to go to a fantastice building college. The things I learned there carried me right through my building career. I have nothing but praise for the lecturers. How they managed to cope with a bunch of yobs with too much money & little respect , more interested in chasing crumpet, I will never know. I kept my college notes (I still have them) & recall referring to pieces of structural design 15 years later.

My son went on a similar course at the same college(one of my fellow students was head of dept) & it was a disaster. Poorly run with far less practical content, some of which had no bearing on his future job. A disappointment

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 19/08/2020 15:57:34

so several people called to quote....I just want it replacing with a similar one.....why cant anyone understand this simple concept......I dont want to change to a combi, I dont want to replace my 12kw item with a whopping 40kw item....i'm seriously thinking of retraining because if everyone elses experience is like mine there must be one heck of a market for it!

Right with you Fizzy.

We are still running our 1973 boiler Eventually, something will fail which will condemn it.

The clock failed annualy until replaced by an old, ex lampost Venner timeswitch still giving 40+ years of troublefree service. The thermostat has been replaced once, and thermocouples seem to have a life of about six years. But all simple fixes. Thermocouples are the most annoying because of the lack of durability.

WHY?

Cast iron, so has outlasted any sheet steel pressed heat exchanger. Am prepared to trade off longevity against efficiency, especially in view of our limited use.

Don't want a combi either. Have heard too may tales of woe from folk with them (D and SIL have had problem within the last ten years or so, ranging from a staged rebuild, through to total replacement.

Which seems to prove my point ).

Howard

My employers apprentice scheme has been running for 100 years. They pick the best of many applicants and it dosn't matter if you are going to be a fitter, designer, mechanical or electrical, the course is the same They all do hand fitting and time in the design office, commercial and shop floor as well as college. Our chief engineer started as an apprentice.

Not all schemes are the same.

Who was it, who said " Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. "

Someone who has never tried teaching, obviously.

That is very true. Teaching well is depressingly undervalued skill. And you don't need to be a world class expert in something to teach beginners the basics.

And those who can't teach teach teachers!

Then there's those who can't be taught anything. They become government Ministers.....

Thanks NW1 , you finally answered the original question.

Now, what's the solution to that ?

30 years ago I was working in a defence establishment.

One of the office PC's had a dodgy 3.5" floppy drive, so a replacement was requested.

Young bloke (contract repair company) arrived and replaced the floppy drive but it did not work. The green light was on continuously.

Out of curiosity I asked the young bloke how much per hour was this repair costing the Defence Department and he replied $120. Then I asked him his hourly rate, it was $12 (Au).

So then I told him that the data connector ribbon cable was plugged in upside down, hence the green light.

He left with a red face after rectifying the problem, but I actually think that I taught him something about floppy disk drives.

Nowadays. 30 years later, $120 p/h is still a decent wage if you can get it.

* Danny M *

Posts questioning the spelling of ideocy in the heading have been deleted so the moaning can continue uninterrupted? Really?

Edited By Hopper on 20/08/2020 11:39:10