For discussing the merits of alternative 3D CAD programs.

Ok enough I for one as a complete novice in this field welcome the opportunity to try a package with some tuition at only the cost of a magazine subsription which i pay anyway

A couple of thoughts:

First, absolutely everything I have done in TurboCAD Deluxe was done in 3D including things I used to produce 2D plans for the magazine and some very complex 3D assemblies.

Second, I have to admit I have found Atom3D a lot faster to use, although the workflow is almost entirely different. The combination of a parametric tree and constraints makes setting out complex things very easy. The feature I missed was helixes but that's being added to Atom3D very soon. It's particularly good at lofted shapes:

Finally, I can't agree you need CNC,CAM or a 3D printer. While I have designed dozens if not hundreds of objects for 3D printing now, I also use 3D CAD where in the past I would have used the back of an envelope or squared paper. It's saved me both time and material and allowed me to make much more elegant designs. Often the 3D model isn't fully worked up, but is just enough to prove dimensions. A good example is my telescope - turning and milling away 90% of a big billets of aluminium could be expensive and frustrating otherwise, the ability to 'turn' the body of the focuser in 3D was invaluable.

Neil

Yes, I've seen your TC 'turret' design before Neil - and hats off to you - I was very impressed at the time. However, I personally struggled to use TC/DL in 3D mode and finally just gave up. It requires a completely different way of looking at things and perhaps I'm too embedded in my ways now.

I'll look forward to being re-educated into thinking 3D with your new Alibre series. I've got my red & green glasses all ready for it (probably showing my age there...)

Regards,

IanT

I got Alibre on a £99 special offer thing and I have renewed on special offers since then. I currently have v2017 on my PC. I think I prefer Fusion. However, unlike Fusion only your maintenance contract expires not the whole caboodle.

I got Fusion on a 2 years for the price of 1 special offer and then rummaged around to turn off the auto-renew. If I draw something I need to keep I will have to make sure I have a real copy and none of that cloud nonsense.

I use a cheap AutoCAD clone called ProgeCAD. It works okay, it has a few bad habits but nothing I cannot work around. I use Alibre and Fusion for 3D printing, I use ProgeCAD for machining 2.5D. I build the shape using circles, lines and arcs then extrude them vertically using the elev and thickness variables. I export as a .dxf and them process that. I have plans to try Fusion tool paths, looks like fun.

OTOH, I use Protel Autotrax for PCB design so what I do is probably not worth your consideration

Edited By JasonB on 28/10/2018 20:18:51

I agree with Mike Lightfoot, in so much as it's great that MEW are providing not only a cad package to trial for six months, but also running tutorials, well done MEW.

I currently use Fusion, why? Well I have the free version and only use it now and again, I have enjoyed learning with it and gaining help in using it from members on this forum from time time. I will look at Alibre when my paper copy drops through the door but I am unlikely to buy it because of the cost compared to MOI or Fusion, but it's great to have the chance to look at it.

I think my position is that I am only likely to ever be a very basic user, I could not produce the flywheel that Jason has done regardless of the draughting package used, I simply don't have the skill. I love using my 3D printer and am amazed at the quality of things I have made in using it, the learning curve has been a bit steep at time but well worth it.

I use TurboCad DeLuxe for Mac, because I have Apple and not Microsoft, so my choice of CAD package is a bit more limited. I did look at Fusion but I think because I had become too used to TC I could not get on with it, and ended up preferring TC. I'm using TC V.7, will have to upgrade to V.10 if I get to upgrade my MacBook Pro to Mojave I think the latest OS system is, but at the moment that £50+ TC upgrade is a cost saved.

I also grew up when CAD was just a twinkle, perhaps not even that, in some clever blokes eye so was taught 'Engineering Drawing' at school and college, even considered doing it as a career as it was the only subject I did that I never had to revise for, I could just sit the exam and get a credit. (Remember those days? No grades or stars, just fail, pass, credit and distinctions!). So paper and pencil drawings are what I did and was good at. I agree that 2D CAD is really just an electronic version of the old pencil and paper drawing stuff, and now I have got my head around the good stuff that 2D CAD offers I really like it.

However, I cannot get my head around 3D drawing. I have tried, especially when there have been so many comments that in designing the way to go is via 3D to ensure all parts fit and so on, and then just produce 2D constructional drawing. Would love to do that, but just can't get my head round how you go about it, what each 3D CAD tool does etc etc.

Like Andrew suggests, a good engineer thinks in 3D, but for the life of me although I do think in 3D, can sketch out my thoughts in 3D, when it comes down to drawing it out properly I can only think in 2D. Everybody learns in different ways, some by watching, some by reading for example, or even if you are a 5 year old kid by just doing it naturally. Well, I am 72 so doing it naturally like a 5 year old would do is a non-starter! I prefer to learn by reading it and then following the book until i grasp the method. That's me. I do find videos very good, and I can learn from watching those too, but there are very few videos of TC for Mac that I have found to help. I would love a book that would teach me but cannot find one.

So when I read that there was this free offer going in MEW I was quite excited that perhaps I could learn 3D with the Atom3D package, especially as tutorials were mentioned! But it's only for Microsoft it seems. No problem, eldest daughter has an old Windows laptop, in Vista, I could download Windows 7 on that and in theory learn with that, which I still might do once I have cured the laptop's addiction to always going on the internet via BTWifi-with-Fon and refusing to connect to my usual network router - any tips for solving that you Windows experts out there?

When my copy of MEW finally arrives I will try Atom3D if I can; in the meantime if anyone can recommend a good book to teach 3D CAD?

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 28/10/2018 22:18:18

Edited By ChrisH on 28/10/2018 22:20:38

Chris - Fusion 360 with its tutorials is as good (better) than any book and for now, free.

Rik

I suppose those of us with a steam powered pooter could get a better video card

You can get them for a tenner nowadays, only problem is many second hand cards have been flogged 24/7 for the bitcoin and altcoin markets

Got an ATI Radeon 5450 for a tenner which may bridge the gap between us oldies who have zero interest in a gaming spec machine and modern CAD offerings

Will take about a week to arrive and set up

That freecad link seems to direct me to ww7.freecad.org and says the name may be for sale. Anyone know what's going on or is it some side effect of my computer virus protection from the real site?

Don't beat yourself up Chris. Years of practice have left you expert at doing something that's not natural at all - translating 3D objects into 2D drawings. You only think it's 'easy' because you're used to it.

The problem is that what you know about 2D drawing is so deeply embedded that it subconsciously intrudes when trying to learn 3D. It's a double whammy - painfully learning a new trick while equally painfully ignoring old truths that are unhelpful in this context. It's hard!

Very easy to dismiss the new way as too complicated or daft, or 'not for me', or even "I'm stupid". There's no easy answer. You have to persist and take baby steps while learning the basics. When I get stuck, I find it helps to consciously reject how I think stuff should work in favour of asking or looking it up. This is because what I think is often wrong, even though I'm convinced I'm always right. The main thing is not to be discouraged. Keep at it, don't take short-cuts, and after a while it will make much more sense. On the other hand, if 3D turns out to be too much trouble, don't regret walking away either.

Dave

Bazyle - **LINK**

Bazyle - Here is FreeCAM video also if you want to machine.**LINK**

Better intro to FreeCAM :- **LINK**

Well the card arrived and I fitted it but its got some goofy video connection

So its another week while I wait for a DMS-59 to VGA connection (sigh)

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Onshape. While it can be a bit slow for really complicated assemblies it has the advantage that it is free and, as it runs within a browser, it works on Windows, Linux, and OSX. It is produced by an ex Solidworks team and I find it very easy to use having first learned 3D CAD on Solidworks about 18 years ago.

Although I also have Fusion 360 installed Onshape is my goto program.

Any other views on it?

Russell

Russel - Thanks for the Onshape reminder. Have not used it for some years. it has come on leaps and bounds. It is now almost second nature to a Solidworks exponent. Excellent

I have been using TurboCad Deluxe for many years now, so I thought that this AA3D trial would be a good opportunity to compare both software packages. As everyone does the most important question is, how much money is this going to cost me after the trial period? To my surprise nobody seems to know! MEW doesn’t state it anywhere in the article! Nor does the internet site of Alibre. If you click on ‘Buy Now’ on the site, nothing happens!

Is this again a case of getting us interested in a package and then slamming us with a cost of hundred of US dollars! They say it has been designed with the hobbyist in mind, but has the price?

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:40:25

£199 for licence only, £279 including maintenance according to the Mintronics website -they are the resellers in the UK.

https://www.mintronics.co.uk/webshop

Edited By Nigel Bennett on 14/11/2018 11:23:27

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:40:06

I got a copy of Turbocad (2D) about 20 years ago. The probability of it working on my current computer is ......nil. Certainly the computer it was on (a 286) died and the Pentium did too, well it's 2Gig disc did and replacements that small weren't available.
So maybe it will still be able to run on my new computer when this one dies in 5 years. Perhaps I will get 10 years use which is £20 per year but more likely only 7 years so say £25pa or 50p per week. Unlikely to use it more than once a week so every time I click on it will be 50p.
In perspective although 50p a week used to be a lot in my youth now it is way cheaper than TV tax and just 1% of my petrol bill. Although it is stand alone I'm sure internet connectivity will be an effective essential and that may well actually cost more than the license.
However I'm not convinced myself yet as I would be very reluctant to spend more than £100 on a bit of tooling apart from the obvious big ones of Mill and lathe and they are solid metal that doesn't go 'poof' or melt away in 7 years.

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:39:49