Recommend T handle metric key set

I am finding a tube extension is increasingly useful, I find that I was a much more powerful lad when I was 25 than I am now at 61. Using a long lever should be used to make life easy not apply a super torque to a bolt. I remember doing the front wheel bearings on a Maxi and the hub nut needed tightening to 185 ftlb, a bit of extra leverage is definitely required for most people. A friend was an engineer in the merchant navy and would check a nut was tight by tapping with a hammer. Marine engines probably don't use many BA bolts though.

Mike

Missed that!

Unfortunately just blew what remains of my Christmas Money on a much reduced astronomy camera... but I will keep the link.

In answer to someone else's questions, just normal sizes for modest metric fixings, especially ones in awkward places.

Somewhere I picked up the idea that spanners and similar tools were sized such that the average person could apply the correct amount of torque without using excessive force. That makes a lot of sense to me, therefore those people who use extensions of any descriptions or hammers for that bit extra tightness are most likely distorting the items concerned, to say nothing of the increased possibility of stripping the thread.

This was brought home to me by an acquaintance who used to do MOT servicing on my car many years ago. I was in the habit of tightening wheel nuts with a ring spanner until the nut/stud/bolt "squeaked". He told me off for overtightening the nuts and when I used my torque wrench I was somewhat taken aback to discover that he was correct and that the recommended value was a lot lighter than I thought. Since then I have been rather more careful when tightening items.

However, in the same manner as Mick Poole above, the rear axle nuts on my VW Beetle were somewhere in the region of 220 ft lbs. which is well outside the range of my torque wrench. The Haynes workshop manual recommended tightening the nut to the maximum of the torque wrench, eg 150 ft lbs, and then turn the nut further until the locking cotter pin could be inserted in the next pair of holes, the idea being that although I could not measure the torque, the extra little bit of turning on the nut would be sufficient.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Have 4 engineering co's worth of proper English allen keys, they dont make them like they used to.

Saying that best of the current crop are Wera but only the plastic sleeved ones. Unsleeved polished shiny are too britle. Where Wera score over and above all others is the fit. Better fit means more grab and less prone to rounding hex off!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Wera-073599-9-Piece-Multi-Colour-Security-Torx-Key-Ball-End-Set/1733149806?iid=131561350833&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49925%26meid%3D1d6e792c8e4a4c5bb251e62d0ba1189d%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D151558452544%26itm%3D131561350833&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Unfortunately they dont do in T and faced same problem as OP ending up trying one of each out from various respected producers.
Bondhus are very good, the fit in the hex is on the poorer side than Wera and also get a lot of shaft flex/twist, touch wood not broken one yet. Serious stuff i spin in with the Bondhus and tighten up with the Wera.

Worst came across were expensive from Italy with the T handle a sliding bar. Plated with black drives. Fitment really poor it couldnt undo literally a nip up done with a Wera, far from tight and of course rounded the hex grub screw. To the rescue Wera undone that screw but Bondhu slipped.

Was talking to someone recently who said his company h&s had banned plastic handled tee hex wrenches because of chance of breaking. Mad.

Bondhus are the original inventors of the ball head Allen key. There warrenty is very good but maybe only in the states.

PB Swiss are probably the best you can buy now but certainly the most expensive,

https://www.onlyqualitytools.com/catalog2/PB_Swiss_Tools/PB_212.LK_Ti.html

Doesn't anyone make their own? It's a good way of recycling old allen keys.

regards Martin

If they squeak, you probably haven't lubricated them. Nuts and bolts are more secure if you lightly oil the threads before fitting and torquing them up and that's how they are supposed to be applied. Conversely, if they are dry and possibly dusty / rusty, you can't consistently control the tightening process - you may apply a high torque to the nut / bolt but much of that may have been lost on the high coefficient of friction, with the result that you don't actually know what preload you have applied to the nut / bolt fastening.

You may find that applying 220 lbft to dry squeaky nuts has the same tightening effect as specified 150 lbft - but there is no way of knowing. Worst of all is the risk of fastenings either coming loose or failing further down the road. As I said above, they are more secure when applied in a clean and consistent state, which is how they are assembled new.

Murray

Presumably the extra torque is needed because of the tendency of Beetles to shake themselves to pieces...

I suggest it would be prudent to follow the vehicle manufacturers recommendations regarding lubricating wheel (lug) nuts.

Some car makers insist that wheel nuts must NOT be lubricated!

I know its counter intuitive but special platings and surface coatings are used to ensure that wheels do not come off, its one of the things that terrify car makers because of ensuing bad publicity (its the sort of thing that even red top readers can understand)

Ian P

As bolt condition makes such a difference to the actual tightness bolt elongation is used in many critical situations. Not very practical in many applications though. Most manufacturers do specify dry or oiled with their torque recommendations. The torque figures for reassembly of used components is probably a bit of a waste of time on vehicles the variation from new components in a factory to refitting parts on a used car just has too many variables. Some critical parts supply new bolts but unless every part is in factory fresh condition you could be well out from the target figure. I find that developing a feel is ok for most situations and as I don't break bolts strip threads or have things come undone this must work for me. Building an engine is rather different and my torque wrenches get used for all critical bolts. The internals of an engine are a much more controlled environment than dirty rust brake and suspension parts though. Although spanners are proportioned to the fasteners they fit a socket set uses the same parts from 10mm to 36mm in a 1/2" drive set, the T bar and ratchet are a bit large for 10 and a bit small for 36 so be careful with the small sizes and a bit of extra length on the large will make life easy. I have a small thick wall tube with my Allen keys as when you undo screws that are very tight they often let go with a bang which hurts the fingers, a tube makes things much more comfortable. It is only about 100mm long so no abuse is used.

Mike

In all the year I have been messing with cars (which is a lot of years) I have never lubricated wheel nuts. I do always use a torque wrench to tighten them.

Amazon have informed me my T set is on the way

Edited By petro1head on 02/02/2018 12:12:45

Wera - I've got a colour coded set 1.5 -10mm. Around £20 but you wont regret it.

I find the colour coded sleeves hugely useful and good to grip.

I put 1 drop of oil on the wheel studs, not over lubed, but stops the rusting problem.

Just for the record, I have never lubricated any nut or bolt on a car. Clean them, yes, but not lubricate. I have done so on a small trailer, the reason being that following the theft of one of the wheels along with the nuts, both wheels and the associated nuts are removedto a more secure place which means that the studs are open to the atmosphere and do indeed suffer from rust and dirt. Hence a clean up and slight lubrication on the rare occasions it is used.

In respect of the Beetle, ignoring Neil's sarky comment, the wheels are held on by bolts into the brake hub. There is therefore little chance of them becoming rusted up. Ok, there is the possibility of brake dust, but that's about all. The 220 ft lbs (213 I think actually for my Beetle, and 253 for the Type 3 Variant I once had) is actually to hold the brake hub onto the halfshaft. There was no requirement to replace these nuts once removed, unlike certain other vehicles I have looked at.

Undoing these nuts was indeed something of a pain, and as Mike says, 1/2in square drive is a bit small for 36mm A/F socket and yes, I had to use an extension to slacken them. In fact, I can remember having to jack up the car, support the extension arm on a screwjack, then lower the car hoping that the weight of the car would slacken the nut. Getting the hub off was another pain in the butt: here the trick was to remove the hub nut, replace the wheel using barely engaged bolts and use the wheel as reverse hammer to pull off the hub.

Surprisingly, I look back on those days quite fondly - I was quite a lot younger, and quite enjoyed messing about with cars. And the Beetle was actually quite reliable. Not now though, it's off to the garage every 10K.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

My dad taught me how to do that

Possibly on a beetle...

Neil

For the occasions when I needed more than 150 LbFt, I welded 1/2" drive male and females into some thin box section, on 12 " centres. Checking against another torque spanner, the one with the extender gave readings half of the one being used as gauge. It worked on our son's VW 1303, drive shafts, but the crank nut on a Rover 75 defied this, (supposedly 285 LbFt applied), even when snatched, and a 1/2" drive air Impact gun. It took a 3/4" drive Impact gun to break it free!

Previously, we had hired a 3/4 drive socket and bar from a VW garage. The bar was badly bent!, but with the aid of a scaffold pole the nut. slackened.

Howard

Some cylinder head bolts are supplied ready lubricated or with a small quantity of lubricant - certainly Vauxhall ones which are tightened to a torque then progressively through two determined angles.

I used to have one of the 'old' style torque wrenches with a long pointer.

As my longest bar it got too much use for undoing wheel nuts tightened by idjuts with air ratchets. being relatively thin it used to 'ping' horribly when a nut jerked loose, I used to hold it with a leather glove in my palm. Long ago the dial and pointer went west. It now has a 90-dgeree bend near the head :-0

I long ago invested in some decent 'breaker bars' and my steplad gave me a decent torque wrench for Christmas

Neil