Couple of things at Lidl

.I saw an interesting 'intelligent' lead-acid battery charger for about £14 at Lidl.

... Thought it might be a bargain substitute for an OptiMate, but then looked at the instruction leaflet.

Has anyone tried one of these ?

MichaelG.

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http://www.lidl-service.com/cps/rde/SID-52F99B77-6D378E19/lsp/hs.xsl/product.html?id=189590446&rdeLocaleAttr=en&title=CAR%20BATTERY%20CHARGER%20ULG%203.8%20B1

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/10/2016 13:08:33

I got one a couple of years ago to trickle charge my camper van. The idea was that I would permanently wire it in via the mains hook up so I could plug the van in and it would auto trickle charge.

problem 1: the charger defaulted to a mode that was inappropriate for trickle charge so I had to click through menu every time.

Problem 2: it lasted a couple of weeks then broke.

I bought it because lots of people said they were good. Maybe I was unlucky. On average, things I get from these 'bargain' offers are worth about what I paid (I got lucky with an angle grinder) - but some are worth less (like the charger).

Thanks, Jack

I was rather concerned when I read that for trickle-charging an 'installed' battery, you're expected to disconnect the battery from the vehicle ... not exactly what I had in mind for a battery situated behind fairing panels !!

I think I will use the benefit of your experience. 

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/10/2016 13:24:29

Have you tried the HSS drllls Andy ?

Cheers H

They're just basic HSS hole drillers and work fine (5mm only so far)

The ones I'm hoping work well are the masonry ones which look well made, a carbide tipped drill can be a ME "lifesaver" at times

MichaelG

Don't forget that most Lidl stuff has a guarantee(up to 3 years) so if it breaks you can at least get your cash back the next time you go shopping

Those Lidl battery chargers seem fine as used as normal by connecting only when needed but still safe from cooking the battery if left connected for a bit too long. Maybe a day or so. But the regulation control doesn't seem good enough long term term connection.

Tried that on my Norton Commander and it killed the two batteries after a couple of months. Since then I just leave it on for a day or two and have had no issues with either the bike or the generator. Makes it much easier to use than my proper charger, an old fashioned transformer and diode type without regulation. That has the punch to bring up big battery in reasonable time but even trickle setting is on the high side for anything over an hour or three. My fault I suppose 'cos thats the way designed it! Case says Winfield (Woolworths special way, way back) but that, the handle and the meter are about all that left of the original, innards are seriously more husky using the biggest transformer that could be shoehorned in.

Clive

I had a closer look at those Lidl HSS drills out of interest and the bigger ones have been sharpened quite cleverley so that the point cuts as soon as it starts to turn

The only time I have seen ground tips like this before was when I got some drills from an ex Ferranti chaps estate

I've used that Lidl charger and it's been fine so far, never for longer than a day or two and only when I need it which is not that often nowadays. Also handy for telling you if an old car battery is jigged or if it's got a bit of life left.

Edited By Ady1 on 17/10/2016 15:26:19

Lidl charger? Forget / ignore the warnings, for anything post 1890's and with properly designed electrics and electronics the chargers work fine and the only issue would be gassing, which would happen anyway with an alternator charge or a charge with any other mains charger. As for defaulting to something other than trickle charge they don't, at power on and connection to a battery they check the battery voltage and do nothing else. There is no output. When the mode button is pressed they charge to meet a target (say 13.8v) and then when the target is met they drop back to a trickle at 13.2v to reduce gassing. With an already charged battery the most you'll get is a short period of full charge (at about 4A) before it reverts back to trickle.

To intiate any charge always requires the mode button to be pressed, this is not an issue unless you have a seriously intermittent mains supply.

The initial charge all depends on the actual voltage of the battery, if it is a 12v lead acid and totally discharged then it might possibly get treated like a 6v motorbike / VW battery and the only way to override this is to get the battery terminal volts up to 12 ish, either by jump leads or another voltage source. For most cases with batteries in a reasonable state of charge it's plug in, press a button to select the right mode and forget. Leave it there all winter. I do that with a number of cars that I have in storage when there is any chance of salt on the roads.

Compared to the crude chargers of old they are light years ahead, It is not possible to build a basic one one from new bits or buy anything with remotely similar functionality for anything like the price Lidl charge.

Ady and Martin,

Thanks for your comments about the Charger

... There's nothing better than a forum to collect a wide range of answers.

I now have both extremes

MichaelG.

I have something similar by Gunson. It works well. Totally different though and I have had it for a long time. I think it works by setting sensible float voltages but may pulse. I've used it to maintain car batteries and caravan batteries that aren't going to be used for a long time.

John

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I don't think those HSS drill bits are particularly cheap. The largest sizes seem to be only 6-8-10mm. I've been getting cobalt bits from a local discount shop for a good price. Screwfix have also been selling those Bosch "drill anything" bits at a discount recently.

Michael

You can add my positive experience to the tally. I found Martin's description completely matches my own findings. I have two of the Lidl chargers bought a few years apart but both seem to work identically apart from LEDs on one and a voltage indicating LCD on the latest one.

I leave mine permanently connected for weeks at a time and none of the vehicles batteries have suffered.

Ian P

Well, I'll agree with Martin 100. I bought one a couple years ago and added another the last time they were on offer.

Perhaps not as good as some chargers (but those are much more expensive!). No complaints yet, for me. I have yet to check the current take when on float (they cannot be used with timers for auto top up on a fortnightly basis, per eg). They should avoid gassing, which is generally due either to over-voltage charging or a cell (or more) is weak.

I also agree with Martin, Mine has been used wwith no problems for the past 3 years, on both 6V and 12V.

Thanks guys,

Looks like I may have to try one.

MichaelG.

Sorry guys. Applying a continuous DC voltage of 13.2 "trickle charge" will kill a wet lead acid battery unless its in very good condition or the available current is suitably restricted to match the condition and capacity of the battery. If the charge current is low, essentially very little more than the self discharge rate, and the battery large this can take a very long time but die it will.

If the battery is small, probably somewhat abused and not that well made in the first place i.e. typical motorcycle battery it will almost certainly be dead by the fourth winter on such a regime.

If it were that easy 13.2 V trickle fixed voltage would have become the norm ages ago. Fact is the idea has surfaced at least 4 times for the motorcycle market in my lifetime. Had a certain flurry of interest with folk saying how wonderful it is then died a protracted death as the new wunderkids get a bad reputation for killing batteries. Car batteries are bigger and more robust but again it never really got traction except among the inspector meticulous types who really don't need an auto control charger anyway. Despite theoretically knowing better I've tried a couple myself and commiserated with folk who got no benefit from other varieties. About the only guaranteed way to get the expected life out of a vehicle battery is to use the beast regularly.

Static battery charging and condition maintenance is hard because the chemical shift between electrolyte and plate occurs at millions of semi-independent sites which all need top move pretty much in step. If things go wrong at one or more points the whole balance is upset locally and the cancer spreads. Modern vehicle batteries actually like being shaken up as the vehicle drives along with regular hefty bursts of current when the starter engages. Helps shake up the bits going wrong. Fortunately wet lead acid batteries are a lot more tolerant than lithium ion which run close to the ragged edge under charge, especially fast charge, and are totally dependant on effective condition monitoring to avoid going into bomb mode.

Way back when I was a lowly lab rat at RARDE Elektor magazine published a circuit for one of these battery maintaining chargers. Showed it to my boss who was less than impressed and dropped a massive tome on battery types, maintenance and charging thereof on my desk a few days later. Presumably quite authoritative as it was prepared for MoD who have a natural vested interest in keeping batteries up to the mark on stored and rarely used equipment. Lunchtime reading for the next fortnight (ish). For a while I knew more than any sane person should about the care and feeding of batteries but have always retained a healthy respect for just how difficult it is to always keep all batteries in good condition. A few weeks testing thermal batteries left an indelible impression as to how close a battery under high discharge conditions is to a bomb, or at least fire-lighter!

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 17/10/2016 20:14:25

Don't quite understand your point here Clive, All lead acid batteries have internal resistance put up by the plates and the electrolyte, and MUST be charged at more than 12 volts in order to charge at all. The usual setting for the output of a car alternator is between 13.8 and 14.2 volts, as is the output from a normal battery charger.

.

Noted, Harry ... but that's the least of my concerns regarding this charger.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't reimburse me for £100 motorcycle battery [or any collateral damage]; especially if I hadn't followed the explicit instructions mentioned earlier

MichaelG.

[quote]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/10/2016 23:32:46

Sealed lead acid batteries do not fare much better. (They are still 'wet' inside). The one's in the attached photo were about a year old, they are from an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) used as a computer back-up and never discharged in anger. The 'trickle' charge is continuous and it was measured at 13.65V which was within the manufacturer's guidelines for 'Standby Use'

Clive is correct about the daily vehicle charge/discharge and shaking routine being healthy for a lead acid battery. Compare this to a typical 'boat' battery which is often left unattended for long periods (over winter) and then fails when asked to perform the next summer.

* Danny M *