First lathe

Hi Chris

First lathe eh? - exciting times!

I too live near Exeter but, so far, I've not discovered a local source of metals. I suggest you contact these folk and order some EN1A (Steel) from them. I've found them very helpful, reasonably priced and quick to respond.

If you do come across supplies near Exeter please let us know!

We all know where you'll be over Christmas!

Regards

Norman

I dont know I am correct, but was informed by a lifelong engineer that the best oil for smaller lathes like the myford, is Castrol "R". He was a two wheeled high performance engine fanatic like myself.

I took his advice and have been using "R" for the last few years on my myford with great sucess and no known disadvantages. The only thing missing is the "Race" smell when it burns - maybe could make a burner to give the right atmospere.

Has any one else used "R", or do they know of any reasons why it should not be used

I bought a brand new ML7 in 1969 and it was installed at the truck garage where I worked.

It spent it's whole life running on Castrol Rotella diesel engine oil for the simple reason it was at the side of a 900 gallon tank of the stuff.

After the 2nd or 3th set of glass oilers cracked thru pushing this little machine too hard I swapped over to a Tecalamitic pressure feed oiler off one of the scrap trucks and it served it's life out set up like this.

Later on when back at home and I needed the room for a larger lathe it was sold to Tony Jeffree and has served as the basis for quite a few of his articles.

Tony removed the pressure feed system and reverted to the 'original' Myford oilers. Later on he removed them and fitted the pressure oiling system from Arceutotrade which again formed the basis of another article.

I could never work out why he removed a perfectly good Tecalimit system to replace it with 19th century technology and then to replace that with what was already on ?

Perhaps I was 20 years ahead of the trend

I probably owned that machine 20 years and it did some serious work but when I sold it to Tony it was still on the original soft spindle, white metal bearings and had had no shims removed in that time.

Castrol R gums things up really badly if they aren't actually moving, it leaves a really nasty varnish like deposit which is murder to clean up. I used to curse the stuff at times, cleaning it out from carburettors on 2 strokes that had been standing for a while.
Does smell....evocative though

Hi Siddley

So far I have not had any glazing deposites - The lathe is not left for any lengh of time between using - I will keep a watch out in future - many thanks

Hi Chris ,

Congrats on the new lathe !

My suggestions are after a good clean give the machine a good going over and check for any faults etc .

I would then check for adjustments like spindle play, end float etc , i would them turn my attention to the saddle , cross and top slides looking for correct adjustment then if your happy look at how the lathe will be mounted and leveled to ensure the bed is not twisted .

There have been many articles in MEW covering this and a few on the mini lathe by Dave Fenner so if you're a subscriber you will have access to these and they are worth reading .

As fore lubrication i use a spray on chain oil for my back gears as oil gets flung off everywhere and never use ep gear oil (diff oil ) as you will never get the smell of this stuff out of your workshop !

I will not give a rust prevention cure as i live in a different climate to you . My suggestion is to get some clean bare mild steel give it a clean up with a grinder to expose bare metal then apply a few different types of of what ever takes your fancy in sections along the steel ( note which one is where ). Leave some untreated areas and put it in the dampest place you can find at home (not out in the rain ) but somewhere condensation is more likely to happen .

Remember what ever you put on you may have to wipe off before using the machine !

The feed srews for the cross and top slides will benifit from some grease and i noticed that copperslip is what Dave Fenner used on his mini lathe .

Terry,

Is there any specific additive in the dry lube that you are looking for or just teflon ?

I had though of using something similar but was unsure if it would work and it would help to keep the machine much cleaner as well .

I also would like to try this for the slideways of my mill as once i fit the DRO to the front of the mill table the useless little button oiler that is fitted will not be accessable .

I was thinking i could wind the table to each end and give the dovetails a spray .

Ian .

Hi Ian,

I'm not sure about other additives but it is a dry (but goes on wet for penetration) teflon based lubricant for applications including extreme pressure such as machine slideways. I can't find the actual data sheet at the moment but it is very similar to this one.

Yes it does help to keep the machine clean, I use an aerosol based one and it lasts. Just my own opinions based on experience,

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 19/12/2012 02:11:55

Thanks Terry , i will have a look at my local supplier for something similar .

Anything that keeps my lathe, mill and anything else gunk free and running smoothly has to be a bonus !

Ian .

Hi Chris -  EP oil does damage PB - this is from the Morris Lubricants website. Not sure on the amount of damage that would be done given the fairly light loading on the average lathe compaired to a car gerarbox, but I would avoid filling a geared headstock up with EP gear oil just in case there's the odd PB bush lurking inside it.

8. Why should I choose non-EP straight oils for my classic car?
Depending on the age, make and model, non-EP gear oils may be required for use in gearboxes and final drives. Certain designs contained a lot of phosphor bronze (copper containing) components that are sensitive to the sulphur-based extreme pressure (EP) additive. The sulphur attacks the copper and destroys the integrity of the meshing gear surfaces.

W.

Edited By WALLACE on 19/12/2012 11:50:12

As a gear Engineer lets just get the Phospher Bronze / EP oils Question out the way ( Wormboxes use PB Rims). Some EP oils will damage PB but remember oil technology changes al the time New EP oils don't damage PB but the older oils can Hence the warning on EP oils from the Morris handbook I still advise clients to stay away from EP oils if they have not been passed by a qualified Tribologist as being suitable. Also don't mix synthetics with Mineral oils.

The major oil companys of today are giving you the best (You don't need to put in an additive If it was any good somebody like Shell or Petronas have already added it to their oils)

MMM..does the EP thing apply to all copper alloys?..and to all purposes...( fit and tolerence)...seem to remember sintered bronze oil filters.....

I used EP90 for many years in the gearboxes of a number of bikes and never saw any corrosion to bronze bushes. Some boxes frequently ran with a EP/water mixture, the water entered the box down the clutch cable and the box was not hot enough to drive the water off. However I would not recommend EP oils for gearboxes or lathes.

Morris's sell their equivalent of Nuto32, Triad32, in 5 litre containers on the internet. However their Slideway oil comes in 25 litre containers and when questioned about this they suggested contacting Premier Fuels and Lubricants. They have sold me 5 litres of Slideway 68 oil over the internet. The cost of such oils is similar to good quality mineral, not synthetic, car oil.

When not in used I always leave the lathe's exposed metal surfaces covered, not smeared, in 68 oil. I only use neat cutting oil, generally Morris's Cora B, so that the metal surfaces do not become stained.

JA

Hopefully adding something to Ian H1's comments: the risk to yellow metals (copper, brass, bronze, GM..) comes from the sulphur in some EP additive packages, in the form of highly effective anti-wear sulphur-phosphorous combinations. Although modern versions claim to be buffered or inert, certainty can only be obtained by checking with the specific product manufacturer. Further confusion can arise because of vague use of the term EP (extreme pressure) by some marketers, both in the sense of EP in general (all levels) and in the lower level of two, when high performance products are differentiated by the term HD. EP performance levels can be achieved by use of, eg zinc-based additives or low levels of S-P materials, but HD performance commonly uses higher levels of S-P.

The clearest examples come from the automotive gear oil sector, where the two most common performance differentiators for transmission oils are API GL-4 and GL-5 (check the label). The former will be sufficiently robust to protect a mild-offset hypoid differential against wear, but a high-offset design will need the greater protection of API GL-5 to counteract the effects of the higher sliding component. However, the higher S-P content of a GL-5 oil would make it potentially risky to use in a synchromesh gearbox or in-unit transmission, unless the oil supplier tells you otherwise. Hypoid designs in industrial applications are as rare as hen's teeth, but the warning about the potential for yellow metal attack could be valid with an older/unchecked product.

And a correction to an earlier post: Rotella diesel engine oils (world's leading DEO brand by volume) are made by Shell, not Castrol. Also approved by JS.

And for Siddley, Castrol R is probably the best known castor oil-based engine oil. These provide wonderful lubricity, particularly in limiting conditions & hence their historical choice for racing 2-strokes & alcohol-fuelled engines. Solubility with mineral oil is limited. As a natural, rather than engineered product, they're high in impurities and suffer from rapid thickening and discolouration due to oxidation - so short life & high cleaning maintenance. I know: I built & ran a 1293cc Mini Cooper S racer on Shell Super M (Castrol R equivalent) in the early '70's, before starting my working life as a lubricants engineer.

Adrian

Well, in fifteen years or restoring Triumph sportscars professionally including rebuilding and race tuning engines and gearboxes, I've never had a problem with any bronze components using the manufacturers recommended Castrol EP 90 gear oil. I did this from roughly the early eighties to mid nineties (I had two or three cars featured in "Practical Classics" magazine) so perhaps the formulation of the oil was made safe by that time although the cars and lubrication recommendations dated back to the early sixties so Triumph must have had faith in the oil. The aforementioned thrust bearings either end of the gearbox layshaft sat in the oil at the bottom of the box continuously for the whole of their working life. Lack of oil was the major reason for damage. In the context of lathes, I don't think which oil you use makes a lot of difference as long as you use some. While I try to use the Myford oil most of the time, in practice, it gets a mixture including Castrol 10/40 motor oil, the occasional 3 in 1 and Rocol Ultraglide as well.

Edited By Chris Trice on 19/12/2012 19:49:18

No conflict, Chris, as the Castrol formulation (API GL-4, from memory) may have been low-dose S-P or another, non-aggressive anti-wear package, such as zinc.

Triumph was on my first sales patch and retained that enlightened philosophy of requiring all visiting representatives not driving Triumph cars to park off-site in a reserved area across the road, furthest from the front door. Reminds me of a cartoon in, I think, Penthouse magazine a great many years ago, showing General Custer standing on a mound shooing away a scruffy blighter in a raincoat carrying a briefcase emblazoned with "Acme Machine Gun Co.", whilst the background is wall-to-wall North American Indians. The caption reads: " F*** off, I've got a battle to fight!".

Adrian

The Blue Oval car company had the same policy, ie across the road if not a F+++, Rolls Royce Derby did not however expect you to arrive by RR powered jet