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Sieg Super X3 advice needed!

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Versaboss28/05/2011 19:06:09
512 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Clive Hartland on 28/05/2011 08:37:50:
Mention is made of the EMCO series of mills, has anyone bought and used one?
The F1200E seems a good one ....

Slight confusion here, Clive?
F1200E is the designation of a Wabeco mill. Not the slightest relation to Emco.
However, I think it is a good machine.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

(sorry, it's not possible to fully delete a wrong quotation. Oh the wonders of that terrible forum software...!)
Clive Hartland28/05/2011 21:39:13
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2929 forum posts
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Sorry about that, I have an Emco catalogue and and looking at it again I see how I got mixed up.
 
Clive
Clive Hartland29/05/2011 09:10:08
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2929 forum posts
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The price list I have is headed at the top, 'EmocMachine Tools'
The sub heading for the milling machines is headed, 'Wabeco'.
That is whet I missed as my eyes were dran to he machines and specs.
 
They seem to have a good range of machines and CNC is listed as an upgrade also longer beds and DRO's.
Very expensive though but if its quality then its worth it.
 
Clive
David Haynes25/11/2011 09:59:42
168 forum posts
26 photos

Arc euro have a deal on it at the moment and are selling it for £799 with extras. I am interested in a mill and are now considering the Chester Eagle25 (belt drive), SiegX2 (belt) but this X3 looks interesting too, though the gears seem a potential problem.

Dave

Raymond Anderson25/11/2011 15:53:59
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785 forum posts
152 photos
Clive,
The mill you mention [F1200E] is made in Germany by Wabeco It is far more of a mill than any Seig but costs a lot more. One of my mates has a CNC one and it is a cracker of a machine very accurate and stable. If I were looking for a mill of these sizes and types then it would be Wabeco for me.
Regards,
Raymond.
JasonB25/11/2011 16:07:50
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25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
David, I've had an X3 for about 4 years, the gears have given no problems mechanically but they can be a bit noisy on intermittant cuts. I have had to replace one worn belt which goes from the motor to the gear box.
 
J
John Stevenson25/11/2011 16:24:16
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5068 forum posts
3 photos
Perhaps David H is under the impression that the gears on the X3 are plastic like some of the other mills on the market when in fact they are all steel.
As Jason says they can be a little noisy at speed and intermittent cuts but they do not give problems.
 
John S.
Euan MacKenzie17/02/2015 01:06:49
3 forum posts

Advice needed on factory tolerances on SIEG SX3 mills:-

I purchased a brand new SX3 from HAFCO in Sydney, and am very disappointed to find that the table is 5 thou high at RH end, and the spindle run out is 3 thou; is this typical for these machines, or have I got a lemon?

Requests to HAFCO for the factory tolerances have produced nothing but prevarication and obfuscation...

SIEG have not replied...

Neil Wyatt17/02/2015 09:04:41
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19226 forum posts
749 photos
86 articles

Hi Euan,

No, they are not typical - my SEIG X2 has spindle runout less than the schlesinger limit of 0.01mm (less than 0.0005" ), I would expect an X3 to be at least as good as an X2.

Usually these sorts of errors are issues with how the test is carried out OR the machine is in factory 'as supplied' condition and isn't properly set up yet.

Can you explain exactly what tests you are doing, ideally with a photo of your test setup?

Are you measuring inside the spindle taper (the correct test) or on material held in a chuck or collet? Also, is there any play in the spindle bearings?

As for the table, this could be loose gibs (allowing the table to tip as it is wound hard over) but if you are measuring with a DTI in the spindle and the spindle is slightly loose, this could also be the cause of the error.

It may well be worth you looking at X3 Preparation Guide

Neil

<got rid of random smiley)

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 17/02/2015 12:45:32

Paul Lousick17/02/2015 11:29:41
2276 forum posts
801 photos

Hi Euan,

My SX3 (which I also bought from HAFCO) has about 0,01mm runout at the end of the spindle after 3 years hard use. (Measured at the un-machined shank of a cutting tool held in a collet).

The SX3 has a tilting head which has to be trammed accurately with a DTI to align it with the table. The locking pin that locates the pivot head in the 0 degree position is only an approximate position which is OK for drilling and rough milling.

Paul.

Michael Gilligan17/02/2015 15:01:44
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23121 forum posts
1360 photos
Posted by Paul Lousick on 17/02/2015 11:29:41:

The SX3 has a tilting head which has to be trammed accurately with a DTI to align it with the table. The locking pin that locates the pivot head in the 0 degree position is only an approximate position which is OK for drilling and rough milling.

.

Sounds like an opportunity for a 'project' !!

I don't know the machine: Would it be practical to set the head accurately, by tramming, and then ream the holes for a taper pin?

MichaelG.

Paul Lousick17/02/2015 22:48:39
2276 forum posts
801 photos

Hi Michael,

Fitting a taper pin is possible, but I have enough projects at the moment to keep me busy. It only takes a few minutes to tram the table with a DTI so is not a big problem.

Paul.

Another JohnS17/02/2015 23:04:15
842 forum posts
56 photos

My "King Canada KC20VS" (equivalent to Warco, Grizzly g0704, etc mills) did have a table issue whereby the table was about 6 thou high along the middle, down the X axis.

A milling vice would rock along it, and you could see it via a parallel on the table.

As it was CNC converted and I did not notice this until complete, I simply put a fly cutter in the spindle (with carbide, first time was a HSS end mill) and cut the table flat. Note that it did have a hard spot in it, which caused HSS end mill issues.

Others have this same mill with no issues; I got the lemon one, I guess. (It's fine now, just the table is not quite as glittery as it was when new out of the crate)

John.

Ady118/02/2015 01:11:22
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6137 forum posts
893 photos

I think it was Drummond who stacked all their new castings in the back yard for six months to let them season before being machined, it lets out any stresses, otherwise you can get bananas as well as flat ones

I don't suppose anyone does it nowadays with just-in-time manufacturing

Some of the cast iron cable TV covers in the street round my way rock to-and-fro to an amazing degree

Paul Lousick18/02/2015 06:42:53
2276 forum posts
801 photos

A machinist friend (from the old school of engineering) told me to rough machine the crankshaft and the cast iron cylinder liner for my traction engine and then leave it outside for a couple of months. The repeated heating and cooling by the sun relieves the stresses in the material..

Paul.

Euan MacKenzie18/02/2015 08:33:13
3 forum posts

Many thanks for all the helpful comments: as to method of measurement, I put a 3MT precision lathe test bar (brand new from LPR Toolmakers) in the SX3's 3MT spindle, and rotated it (in tapping mode), against a DTI; which showed 3 thou runout. I know the 3MT test bar is OK, because I recently had my Hercus Model C lathe (a clone of the South Bend Model C) restored by F. W. Hercus, here in Adelaide, and no run out is detectable in the Hercus (3MT) headstock.

When the weather is cooler, I will repeat the test using an Allen key to rotate the spindle by means of the drawbar, instead. Also check whether the spindle has any detectable side play in the bearings.

As regards the table, I mounted the DTI in the SX3's drill chuck and wound the table from full left to full right; it is flat to better than a thou from LHS to about 3/4 of the way over to the RHS, where it commences to rise to 5 thou at the extreme RHS; so I don't think it's a tramming issue. Again, when it's cooler, I will repeat the test using a 3MT/ER40 chuck/collet to hold the DTI, instead.

I do have a copy of Dr Georg Schlesinger's "Testing Machine Tools", sixth edition.

I should also add that my SX3 is exactly 'as delivered'; ie I have not performed the type of work recommended by arceurotrade; who incidentally have been most helpful; although I purchased my SX3 from HAFCO, in Sydney, via General Tools in Adelaide (because I had no facilities to unload a 200kg crate). General Tools very kindly used an engine hoist to put it on my bench.

I did my machine apprenticeship at English Electrics Willans Works, Rugby, in the mid fifties; I well remember that the castings for the Fullagar Diesel engines (intended for ships, submarines, locomotives and power stations) were left outside to weather for six months, before any machining. So, I believe that my SX3 table may well have warped after machining (it has no evidence of 'hand scraping' marks, only surface grinding).

Euan

bricky08/02/2019 08:19:48
627 forum posts
72 photos

I have a SX3 and have some issues with it,but you don't get a Rolls for the price of a Mini.I thought the fiddly two pin spanner for holding the quill needed changing so I drilled a hole on the quill face and made a c spanner,no more problem there.Flexing of the column whilst taking cuts with a slot drill could be annoying .I fastened an angle iron to the top of the column and with three angle irons bolted them to the column and the roof.I made a manual depth stop as well to complement the digital readout.The mill suits me.

Frank

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