Sieg Super X3 advice needed!

Advice needed on factory tolerances on SIEG SX3 mills:-

I purchased a brand new SX3 from HAFCO in Sydney, and am very disappointed to find that the table is 5 thou high at RH end, and the spindle run out is 3 thou; is this typical for these machines, or have I got a lemon?

Requests to HAFCO for the factory tolerances have produced nothing but prevarication and obfuscation...

SIEG have not replied...

Hi Euan,

No, they are not typical - my SEIG X2 has spindle runout less than the schlesinger limit of 0.01mm (less than 0.0005" ), I would expect an X3 to be at least as good as an X2.

Usually these sorts of errors are issues with how the test is carried out OR the machine is in factory 'as supplied' condition and isn't properly set up yet.

Can you explain exactly what tests you are doing, ideally with a photo of your test setup?

Are you measuring inside the spindle taper (the correct test) or on material held in a chuck or collet? Also, is there any play in the spindle bearings?

As for the table, this could be loose gibs (allowing the table to tip as it is wound hard over) but if you are measuring with a DTI in the spindle and the spindle is slightly loose, this could also be the cause of the error.

It may well be worth you looking at X3 Preparation Guide

Neil

<got rid of random smiley)

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 17/02/2015 12:45:32

Hi Euan,

My SX3 (which I also bought from HAFCO) has about 0,01mm runout at the end of the spindle after 3 years hard use. (Measured at the un-machined shank of a cutting tool held in a collet).

The SX3 has a tilting head which has to be trammed accurately with a DTI to align it with the table. The locking pin that locates the pivot head in the 0 degree position is only an approximate position which is OK for drilling and rough milling.

Paul.

.

Sounds like an opportunity for a 'project' !!

I don't know the machine: Would it be practical to set the head accurately, by tramming, and then ream the holes for a taper pin?

MichaelG.

Hi Michael,

Fitting a taper pin is possible, but I have enough projects at the moment to keep me busy. It only takes a few minutes to tram the table with a DTI so is not a big problem.

Paul.

My "King Canada KC20VS" (equivalent to Warco, Grizzly g0704, etc mills) did have a table issue whereby the table was about 6 thou high along the middle, down the X axis.

A milling vice would rock along it, and you could see it via a parallel on the table.

As it was CNC converted and I did not notice this until complete, I simply put a fly cutter in the spindle (with carbide, first time was a HSS end mill) and cut the table flat. Note that it did have a hard spot in it, which caused HSS end mill issues.

Others have this same mill with no issues; I got the lemon one, I guess. (It's fine now, just the table is not quite as glittery as it was when new out of the crate)

John.

I think it was Drummond who stacked all their new castings in the back yard for six months to let them season before being machined, it lets out any stresses, otherwise you can get bananas as well as flat ones

I don't suppose anyone does it nowadays with just-in-time manufacturing

Some of the cast iron cable TV covers in the street round my way rock to-and-fro to an amazing degree

A machinist friend (from the old school of engineering) told me to rough machine the crankshaft and the cast iron cylinder liner for my traction engine and then leave it outside for a couple of months. The repeated heating and cooling by the sun relieves the stresses in the material..

Paul.

Many thanks for all the helpful comments: as to method of measurement, I put a 3MT precision lathe test bar (brand new from LPR Toolmakers) in the SX3's 3MT spindle, and rotated it (in tapping mode), against a DTI; which showed 3 thou runout. I know the 3MT test bar is OK, because I recently had my Hercus Model C lathe (a clone of the South Bend Model C) restored by F. W. Hercus, here in Adelaide, and no run out is detectable in the Hercus (3MT) headstock.

When the weather is cooler, I will repeat the test using an Allen key to rotate the spindle by means of the drawbar, instead. Also check whether the spindle has any detectable side play in the bearings.

As regards the table, I mounted the DTI in the SX3's drill chuck and wound the table from full left to full right; it is flat to better than a thou from LHS to about 3/4 of the way over to the RHS, where it commences to rise to 5 thou at the extreme RHS; so I don't think it's a tramming issue. Again, when it's cooler, I will repeat the test using a 3MT/ER40 chuck/collet to hold the DTI, instead.

I do have a copy of Dr Georg Schlesinger's "Testing Machine Tools", sixth edition.

I should also add that my SX3 is exactly 'as delivered'; ie I have not performed the type of work recommended by arceurotrade; who incidentally have been most helpful; although I purchased my SX3 from HAFCO, in Sydney, via General Tools in Adelaide (because I had no facilities to unload a 200kg crate). General Tools very kindly used an engine hoist to put it on my bench.

I did my machine apprenticeship at English Electrics Willans Works, Rugby, in the mid fifties; I well remember that the castings for the Fullagar Diesel engines (intended for ships, submarines, locomotives and power stations) were left outside to weather for six months, before any machining. So, I believe that my SX3 table may well have warped after machining (it has no evidence of 'hand scraping' marks, only surface grinding).

Euan

I have a SX3 and have some issues with it,but you don't get a Rolls for the price of a Mini.I thought the fiddly two pin spanner for holding the quill needed changing so I drilled a hole on the quill face and made a c spanner,no more problem there.Flexing of the column whilst taking cuts with a slot drill could be annoying .I fastened an angle iron to the top of the column and with three angle irons bolted them to the column and the roof.I made a manual depth stop as well to complement the digital readout.The mill suits me.

Frank