By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Forum House Ad Zone

Major flaw in the world of engineering

Basic information

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Nicholas Farr21/04/2023 14:33:57
avatar
3988 forum posts
1799 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/04/2023 14:22:34:

Cut

It's at times like this that one really misses the late JohnS. smile

Andrew

Hi, yes a very knowledgeable and helpful man he was.

Regards Nick.

paul mcquaid21/04/2023 14:34:22
34 forum posts
12 photos

Thanks for all the useful advise. The main thing I was trying to say is that the chuck I was mentioning is made by the same manufacturer and Myford produce batches of backplates designed to fit them they sell them complete and could easily sell them as a separate item, Much like I can get mounting kit's for my Harley to mount other makes of parts to it. If anything they would probably find they can make quite a good turnover of profit on it too! Myford is one example I am sure there are lot's more...

Jelly21/04/2023 14:38:03
avatar
474 forum posts
103 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/04/2023 14:22:34:

If the OP approaches suppliers with the same tone as the above rant then I am not surprised he got short shrift.

It did occur to me that if he'd taken that tone with my favourite second-hand tooling supplier, he'd have been subjected to a tongue lashing in a mixture of Urdu and "De-Dar" and/or escorted to the door by the proprietor's nephew.

However, applying common-sense, I strongly suspect Paul was polite (if audibly frustrated) when speaking to the supplier and is now here to vent his frustration in a more appropriate way because it's really got his goat.

DMB21/04/2023 14:43:27
1585 forum posts
1 photos

Paul,

I started off with an ancient and worn flatbed Drummond. I later went to a local toolshop for hand tools and unexpectedly discovered they were a Myford stockist with a brand new ML Super 7 for sale. Room over shop had piles of boxes full of Myford spares. I bought lathe, stand, 4" 3 jaw self centering chuck which was ready threaded to screw on mandrel nose and 6" 4 jaw independent + blank backplate which needed to be screwed on to the mandrel and machined to fit the rear of the chuck. Work out the dia. of the pitch circle of bolt holes in the chuck and set a sharp cornered tool to scratch that dia. on the back plate. Trf backplate to drilling machine and drill four generous clearance holes on the marked pcd. Jobbie done! I frequently went back to that shop for more bits. The shopkeeper was an older woman and what she didn't know about engineering wasn't worth knowing. I only knew Lathework from schooldays and reading books as listed above. School didn't have a mill, I am completely self taught by reading books and mags and using the mill that I later bought. No question is daft, we have all had to learn.

Just ask and those with knowledge and experience will help.

Please put something in you forum profile so we have an idea where you are. Someone nearby could be willing to visit you and give further help and advice.

Good luck!

John

Nicholas Farr21/04/2023 14:46:39
avatar
3988 forum posts
1799 photos
Posted by Ian P on 21/04/2023 14:32:55:
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/04/2023 14:22:34:

If the OP approaches suppliers with the same tone as the above rant then I am not surprised he got short shrift.

It's at times like this that one really misses the late JohnS. smile

Andrew

I miss John S all the time!

Ian P

Hi, I was talking to John at one of the exhibitions once, and we got on about some of the smart, I know it all, kind of people that used to be on here, and he said that he wound them up all the more till they made a fool of themselves. He certainly knew how to shot shrift those types.

Regards Nick.

Ady121/04/2023 14:47:48
avatar
6137 forum posts
893 photos

Learning what to look for when buying stuff is yet another skill to be acquired

Just because it says what you are looking for doesn't mean it will be what you are looking for

Branding in particular can become a bit of a lottery because the brand has been sold to someone in Asia and they use cheesy steel instead of sheffield steel

Then there's the knock-offs wot say wot they're not...

Welcome to our world !

Dave Halford21/04/2023 15:00:25
2536 forum posts
24 photos

I really don't get this post.

Things must have changed at RDG/Myford ( they are owned by the same family) 5 years ago someone would have been prepared to tell you to screw the plate onto the lathe spindle, measure the gap across the chuck back and turn a step in the edge of plate to match. That said I recently got a 125mm backplate for a Boxford with a 75mm chuck recess from them which had a recess over 80mm wide so fits a 75mm chuck after turning it down .

Amazon seems to like the Stan Bray 'Basic Lathework' book

Nicholas Farr21/04/2023 15:07:25
avatar
3988 forum posts
1799 photos

Hi Paul, Chucks are precision pieces, and while the registers are technically all the same size for a given size and style of chuck, they still have a tolerance to the actual size depending on many things such as quality, so the ones they sell with the chucks fitted with backplates, are a matched pair, and of course the greater the accuracy of fit etc., the higher the price will be. While hobby machines are made to an affordable price, all engineering is made to a price, even in industry. so the more extreme the accuracy that is needed the higher the price is going to be.

Regards Nick.

paul mcquaid21/04/2023 15:13:23
34 forum posts
12 photos

Hi Mate.

The trouble is I haven't got that far yet, I needed a chuck to hold the bar to true the lathe first. I have only just been given it. and came with no chuck (or was lost) Can I ask a silly question? I noticed inside the spindle tube (At least I think that's what the bit the chuck screws onto is called?) there is a copper or brass ring. Is it supposed to be there or has it been jammed in by coming off something in the past? If it is supposed to be there what is it for If not how do I get it out as I am assuming its a taper?

Nicholas Farr21/04/2023 15:22:43
avatar
3988 forum posts
1799 photos

Hi Paul, no I don't think that ring should be there, as the spindle does have taper at the front of the bore. Maybe someone used the ring as a backstop when doing some repetition work.

Regards Nick.

paul mcquaid21/04/2023 15:24:34
34 forum posts
12 photos

Do to you think It would be ok to tap it it out with a long tube like a drift?

Nicholas Farr21/04/2023 15:29:13
avatar
3988 forum posts
1799 photos

Hi David Halford, not much difference than B&Q/Screwfix, and many other joint companies. Of course dedicated Myford users will only buy Myford spears, Boxford users will only buy Boxford spares, Ford car owners Ford spares, I could go on and on.

Regards Nick.

paul mcquaid21/04/2023 15:31:43
34 forum posts
12 photos

Sorry everyone for not realising I needed to put down my personal information and have realised it come under settings instead of being labelled Personal Information. it is all completed now though. I hope I haven't offended anybody for my rant. I was Polite when I spoke to Myford, Not very happy with the lack of explanation.. But realised I wasn't going to get it sorted any other way so bit the bullet and paid the £150. So at least I can get on with learning how to check the trueness of the lathe now... Fingers crossed.

Stuart Bridger21/04/2023 15:32:18
566 forum posts
31 photos

I do sympathise with the OP, it is a bit of a minefield getting started. I was lucky enough to have engineering apprenticeship under my belt. Although it was a 30 year gap to when I started my own workshop, the basics soon came back to me. Like others, I did a huge amount of research before getting out my wallet. I will admit to making mistakes with cheap tooling. The vice "bundled" with my mill was near to useless and I have upgraded a number of other pieces since. Is there a local ME club you could get advice from? Not knocking the advice here but a friendly face and eyes diretcly on the problem(s) can be very valuable.

Stuart Smith 521/04/2023 15:35:22
349 forum posts
61 photos

Paul

As others have said, you can fit the backplate to the lathe and machine it to fit your chuck.

This YouTube video shows the process:

**LINK**

Stuart

JasonB21/04/2023 15:45:50
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles

You don't want to be holding a bar in a chuck to "true up the lathe" either use a MT2 test bar that fits into the spindle's tapered socket or turn a bar between centers and then measure the bar

Edited By JasonB on 21/04/2023 15:46:53

Dave Wootton21/04/2023 17:34:17
505 forum posts
99 photos

I miss the late John S, bought a shaper the other day and kept smiling to myself as I thought of what he would say. Remembering one of his comments about shapers ( which he had no time for) " Shapers are wonderful things, they stop the floor escaping until you can find a proper machine to take it's place"

Clever and funny man.

not done it yet21/04/2023 19:57:42
7517 forum posts
20 photos
Posted by paul mcquaid on 21/04/2023 15:31:43:

Sorry everyone for not realising I needed to put down my personal information and have realised it come under settings instead of being labelled Personal Information. it is all completed now though. I hope I haven't offended anybody for my rant. I was Polite when I spoke to Myford, Not very happy with the lack of explanation.. But realised I wasn't going to get it sorted any other way so bit the bullet and paid the £150. So at least I can get on with learning how to check the trueness of the lathe now... Fingers crossed.

Paul,

I just, out of interest, looked for your profile (does not require specific personal information) but it is blank. I think you may need to adjust some settings to make it visible to the general membership.

Toolstation fairly recently opened an outlet nearby (previously the closest was about ten miles away) just off the same road but about half a mile apart - so I now have an alternative to Screwfix. I use either only as a source of cheap bits and pieces.

T’other day when I went into Screwfix for some odds and ends, I found they had no stock for one item, it would take a day to arrive and would I like to order it. My reply was that I would check out Toolstation for that item and mentioned each piece was about 20p cheaper. The Screwfix lady said fair enough and then added that the cost difference was because Screwfix supplies were of better quality. I just smiled and commented that while her claim was true - to beat Toolstation (on quality) was not really so much to shout about.🙂

I don’t buy much, from either outlet, even if I am only looking for just above average quality.

Kiwi Bloke21/04/2023 21:53:33
912 forum posts
3 photos
Posted by JasonB on 21/04/2023 15:45:50:

You don't want to be holding a bar in a chuck to "true up the lathe" either use a MT2 test bar that fits into the spindle's tapered socket or turn a bar between centers and then measure the bar

Well, it depends on what is meant by 'true up the lathe'. If going through a full set-up process from scratch, it's quite involved, as are the tests (eg Schlesinger). However, for a final test of the machine's ability to turn parallel, a couple of turned collars on a length of bar, held in the chuck is absolutely fine. The chuck need not hold on centre, or truly axially, but must hold without slop. I've seen a video on the unreliable net that suggested that the 'two collar test' be done with tailstock support. Oh dear...

JasonB22/04/2023 06:54:46
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles

Well a test bar should get it set up well enough to machine a backplate then the chuck used if you want to do a parallel (without tailstock support) test.

Two collar test can also be used for setting the tailstock as little point in turning down a full length of bar and ensures mimimal wear on the tool.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Sign up to our Newsletter

Sign up to our newsletter and get a free digital issue.

You can unsubscribe at anytime. View our privacy policy at www.mortons.co.uk/privacy

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
cowells
Sarik
MERIDIENNE EXHIBITIONS LTD
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

 

Donate

donate