Mystery object

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Way out of my depth here, but :

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MichaelG.

AP could be a possibility. It's why I asked about the hacksaw cut - maybe the saw-wielder came up against the tail of a hard core and gave up.

But hey, even if I knew that, it wouldn't really give a definitive ID. American bullet-makers like Speer produce TC-cored heavy game bullets in .375", but they're not for long-range use and don't look much like that one.

 I am only working from experience as I have in the past fired various weapons from the humble .22 right up to 120mm

The saw cut(or what appears to be) may be someones attempt at removing the head and got it wrong and should have cut further down the casing to miss the head to remove it intact. Not that I would want to do so.

I do also use casings to make pens    

Edited By Derek Lane on 06/03/2022 16:37:43

Edited By Derek Lane on 06/03/2022 16:38:18

Edited By Derek Lane on 06/03/2022 16:38:44

Agreed. I should have mentioned the Berger Wiki source says recent (circa 2009) match bullets deviate from G7 form. Just guessing, but as the technology available for measuring ballistics has improved vastly over the last 30 years, it's likely bullets have been tweaked since the G series were defined.

Ballistics are another interesting aspect of technology I don't have time to explore. Shame, for a few quid it's fairly easy to measure the velocity of a bullet at home with an Arduino. High-speed motion photography is still too expensive for amateur bodgers, but prices are dropping! Of course doing home ballistics in the UK requires the legalities to be met: no second amendment sophistries here!

Dave

Yes, most of mine were done before the insane atrocities that produced the current legal labyrinths.

Many thanks tor all the replies. As I say, it was not my object, nor my photos, so I cannot get better ones - I was asking for another poster on a another website. I will report back to them.

Having read all the replies, my guess is that as Derek Lane says; someone found an unfired round, and tried to hacksaw it open, but cut into the tail of the bullet as well as the shell case. Having got halfway through, they were able to wrench off the shell case - hence the part of the casing still attached to the bullet and the angled edge to the casing just below the cut where it was torn away?

Incidentally, the scratches on the copper/brass part are from the owner crudely cleaning the bullet up - it was very rusty in his first picture, (that I didn't post).

Thanks again.

Edited By John Doe 2 on 07/03/2022 12:57:06

Might I suggest a far simpler explanation. The saw cut halfway through the base of the bullet was made so that it could be used as a plumb bob...

Much too simple Mark.

Regards Ian.

The fact that you say the owner cleaned it because it was rusty, means that it is maybe of German origin from wartime as they made bullets with steel jackets at that time.Copper washing to stop immediate rusting.

Last time I saw these was in .44 Magnum pistol made by Norma, I recovered some after about a month and they had rusted.

I have just checked my list of cartridges and cannot find a calibre like that.

Edited By Clive Hartland on 07/03/2022 13:55:54

Only simpler if you believe whoever sawed it was a clever chap with a plan. More likely, I feel, done by an ignoramus getting hold of a cartridge and wondering what's inside...

Double kudos to Derek for spotting the bullet probably hasn't been fired and the sawn badly getting it apart theory.

I doubt it's military. Overkill for firing at people and too small to be effective against vehicles or aircraft.

Dave

If it was rusted I strongly suspect this is the core of a 50BMG bullet. These used a steel core and while I can't find a dimension for the core 0.375" seems reasonable for 0.50" round. It would also explain the somwhat pointed profile. I did wonder before if it was a core but the gut indicates i wasn't tungsten and the rust was nor mentioned.

Someonr cut the jacket off a 50 cal bullet.

Robert G8RPi

Possible, but the standard ball and AP rounds here:-

https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/land/ammo-50.gif

...don't show a similar form.

Some of the SLAP rounds have a long cone point, but the ones I've seen on t'net don't have a boat tail...

When Clive mentioned the German's used Steel jacketed bullets in WW2 I looked it up. Still done today for cheapness - it wasn't just a wartime economy. The disadvantage is the rounds have to be used quickly because they go rusty, so again not military.

I'm pretty certain it's a whole bullet, not a core, because it's similar to G7 profile - Mick's spire point and boat-tail are typical of the external shape of a long-range bullet. Lastly 0.375" is a recognised calibre:

Next picture is of a '0.375 Lehigh Defense Match' bullet. Looks familiar?

An expensive way of making plumb bobs - the bullets alone are $2.32 each. Complete cartridges seem to average at about $6 each - not a cheap hobby!

Dave

When I click on your link, Dave, I see a different bullet to the one in your second pic - one that looks a bit more like the OP's in that it has a crimping groove, but still has a radius on the ogive, not a simple cone.

Pure match or target bullets *usually* don't have crimping groove - as in your second pic - as reloaders may have to seat at a depth to suit the rifling leed of their individual rifle. 40 thou standoff is a typical starting point for load development. Strong case-neck tension is used to hold the bullet in place against handling stresses.

A crimping groove suggests intended use in a production magazine rifle - the groove plus crimp prevents bullets getting seated deeper by successive recoil.

So I'd guess the LeHigh is being sold as a niche sniper (or long-range target/wannabe sniper) projectile to suit a particular model rifle. The OP's bullet may be aimed (hardy har har) at the same market.

I might be way behind the times, but I thought the balance between recoil, long-range flat trajectory, downrange energy retention, crosswind resistance, accurate barrel life etc. etc. had put .338" calibres in fashion for the time being for this purpose. .375" might need heavy rifles with pretty robust users if it's going to satisfy similar criteria.

Edited By Mick B1 on 07/03/2022 21:48:07

As noted above, I am way out of my depth … but here is the Russian patent for that design: **LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DRU2438096C1

There's enough in the Abstract to get the idea.

Note that [in common with many optical designs] the geometry covers a family of sizes, in proportion.

MichaelG.

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No, not particularly … the nose isn’t conical

MichaelG.

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P.S. __ Here are some interesting variations on a theme:

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/7-62x54r-russian-armor-piercing-7h13-7h26-7n37-cutaways/42656

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/03/2022 22:47:02

Oh dear, I've been misunderstood again. I'm not saying the mystery object is specifically a Nosler e-tip or Lehigh Defense Match! I'm saying:

• the mystery object is a whole bullet, not a core cut out of a 0.5" bullet
• it has a 0.375" diameter which is a common civilian calibre, not military
• The bullet shape is similar to standard G7 long-range profile. (Similar: an exact match isn't essential because modern bullets have been improved since G7 was defined.)

In short, I believe the mystery object to be a bullet pulled from a 0.375" Holland and Holland cartridge. The shape suggests long-range shooting. The exact make and date of production are unknown - I haven't found an exact match!

Mick said: I might be way behind the times, but I thought the balance between recoil, long-range flat trajectory, downrange energy retention, crosswind resistance, accurate barrel life etc. etc. had put .338" calibres in fashion for the time being for this purpose. .375" might need heavy rifles with pretty robust users if it's going to satisfy similar criteria.

Safe to bet serious money that I'm not as well informed as Mick! I'm joining the dots on what little I know of US shooting interests and the types of ammunition available there: I could be wrong. My take is 0.375" is a hunting calibre suitable for animals larger than anything found in North America, yet many different 0.375" bullet shapes are available from US gun shops. My guess is many of them are shot for fun rather than at rogue elephants and police helicopters. 0.375" could have the same sort of macho appeal as the almighty Desert Eagle pistol: amazing looks and power, ideal for Hollywood willy-waving but otherwise impractical.

Dave

Hi, I know next to nothing about guns and bullets apart from them being able to kill, however I do have a non live bullet and an empty casing, don't know where I got them from as I don't use such things and never have (apart from one or two of those that you get at fun fares) so I think the one that I have must have been amongst a box of odd items bought at an auction.

In the photo below, it measures 83mm long, the casing being 63mm long, the end near to the reduction is 11.2mm in diameter and the other end next to the undercut being 11.8mm.

Next photo is the detonation end.

The bullet is 30.5mm long and 7.91mm between the knurled section and the blunt end.

The next photo is of the blunt end.

Smart pen and a cleaver idea Derek Lane, my son-in-law may like such a pen, although he only has shoot guns as he goes game shooting.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 08/03/2022 12:18:56

Nick,

I think you have a standard US military .30-06 ball round made by Remington Arms of Bridgeport CT in 1943.

It's probably M2 Ball with a 152-grain bullet at a nominal MV of 2,805 ft./sec.

I suspect it's been fired in a military weapon with slightly relaxed chamber tolerances, from the mild swelling at the case web ahead of the extraction groove.

Edited By Mick B1 on 08/03/2022 12:59:41

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Presumably by me; for which I apologise

But the conical [not ogival] nose does seem to be a fundamental identifying feature.

MichaelG.