Are we being listened to on the phone

I am NOT paranoid, I just know someone is watching me.

just remember everything has a price, including freedom.

If you have nothing to fear, why worry.

Modern technology is wonderful, but comes at a price, if you think that price is too high, don't use the technology.

If it bothers you that much, become a hermit, remove yourself from modern society and see how long you last.

Come on chaps, lets have a smile, the world is NOT that bad.

I was recently viewing the Ikea website on my iMac, and within a few minutes my wife had ads on her iPhone for Ikea which appeared on her Facebook page. Not the first time this had happened. I suspect it is Google using our IP address and cookies. It doesn't happen if I use Firefox.

I'm sure it is dependant upon whether companies are paying Google to pass on the data, which may be why it doesn't happen in all instances.

I agree with Howi, it doesn't particularly bother me either. If I lived in China or North Korea I would worry.

I can’t believe anyone is sad enough to be interested in me, I have no idea what adverts appear on YouTube as my 100% focus is on the yellow countdown line or waiting for the skip button to appear. I am fortunate that having to think clearly in a manufacturing environment with a crowd round me I have acquired the useful ability to shut everything out apart from what I am working on, the downside of this is that my wife also gets shut out when I am concentrating and wives do like to be heard.

Mike

An intriguing question, closely related to Michael's post on adverts appearing on his TV, and maybe sent to other devices on his network.

In times past, technology was brainless. Telephones, TVs, Radios, Fridges, Machine Tools, Cars, Aircraft and Toasters were isolated, and, when needed, getting machines to communicate required costly special interface technology.

Turns out interconnectivity is a valuable feature, the modern equivalent of Whitworth standardising threads. It's not only anti-aircraft systems that benefit from coupling sensors, computers and servos together, it's systems in general. It allows TV viewers to select the programme they want to watch now rather than wait for it to appear on a schedule. Whilst people of my age tend to watch broadcast TV via an aerial, anyone under 50 is likely to be connected to a narrowcast service, and streaming media on demand.

Under the bonnet there's little difference between a Smart Phone and a Smart TV, and pretty much anything with a display, like a DRO, could join the club. As digital technology is standards based, lego-built, it could be cheaper to program a small Smart TV to be a DRO than to design one: most of the functionality is in software. This is why Digital Toaster are appearing; they don't cost much to make, and might be useful.

Communications and compute power are cheap enough to be universally on. Once a washing machine's capability was limited by it's mechanical controller. Today, microcontrollers come with Bluetooth, Wifi and a shower of other smart features built in. New washing machines can be remote controlled, report faults, and cooperate with energy management regimes. Or anything else the designer wants.

Though it leaves me cold, there's much benefit in this to mankind, and the young don't suffer the same culture shock as me because they are immersed in it I desperately read the manual whilst my children just accept it works and press a few buttons. They wonder why I have to make technology difficult by trying to understand it!

A massive downside to all this sharing is devices that previously didn't have security or privacy implications are now riddled with them. No need to agree Terms and Conditions when installing a basic TV because it's too stupid to do anything unwanted. But there's every need to look at the Ts&Cs and configuration settings of a Smart TV, because the thing will initially obey the sellers instructions, possibly detecting speech like Alexa, rather than enforcing your privacy. Several third parties are involved. And, as a Smart TV is a network connected computer, it might be hacked, for example by an outsider turning on the webcam and watching you.

Living in a democracy I'm not too concerned about the state monitoring what I'm up to. Privacy intrusions are much more worrying, because who collects information and what it's used for is almost completely out of control. Private information is bought and sold internationally and it can be collated, cross-referenced, sorted, associated, and analysed in a multitude of ways. Not difficult to identify individuals from supposedly anonymous data-sets. Most data collection is innocuously used to target advertising, but bear in mind organised crime can buy the same data to meet their needs.

No need for paranoia, but cause for concern. I prefer not to be subjected to 'psychoanalytic profiling' by anyone. So I take care to reduce leakage of private information by not sharing it willy-nilly. My computers run on the principle of least privilege (not doing ordinary work as admin, not running Public services, and restricting accounts to only what they need). Settings are altered to refuse cookies, location information, analytics and anything else than can be turned off. Router settings are clamped. I often browse in Private window mode, and I prefer Linux to Windows because it's a harder target and provides more control. I don't share passwords or usernames between different accounts and the passwords are a near random mix of alpha-numerics and punctuation at least 9 characters long. Software is up-to-date and suspicious activity investigated. Ad blocking, website blacklisting, and anti-tracking software is installed. Unfortunately this level of control may not be possible on a Smart device aimed at folk who just expect stuff to work. My BT Router is a bit like that: fairly good, except it doesn't allow access to some of the deeper controls available, probably because customers would mess them up.

A big problem is strong security is a pain to manage and it's so much easier just to unlock everything so people don't have to worry about admin permissions. Most of us rant at minor inconveniences, never read the instructions, and we don't care one jot about security until we step in it!

I haven't felt it's necessary to set up a Virtual Private Network or any of the other elaborate security precautions available, but I think my next TV will have be crimped by Pi-hole, or similar. Technology is double-edged!

Dave

Just for the fun of it - circa 2014-2015, when the organization I worked for was in upheaval, I was asked (an Internet protol and app guy) to work with RF frequency guys to put forth ideas for increasing throughput on cell phones.

Anyway, I created this picture - Wired magazine with Andrew Snowden on the "cover", and a utility to show where tracking connections went - I figured that about 80% of the data transported was "fluff", 20% real-user-wished-for data.

Needless to say, the report was thrown out - these RF guys wanted RF ideas, not caring about the amount of data.

I'm sure the tracking, etc is much worse now. The red names are the sites that the tool reported as being "fluff"

I use FireFox and targeted ads happen within a minute of viewing something. Just about as fast as getting to the next page.

It depends where in the world you happen to be.

To digress slightly I think that we should all be concerned about the type and volume of information that Amazon is accumulating about us as individuals, to what purpose is the vast database to be put ? Dave W

Just my two pence worth, but if you are concerned that a mobile is listening to what you are saying (especially not during a phone conversation) then remember that it would need to send that information somewhere. Any processing would be unlikely to happen on the phone and to upload audio would take detectable bandwidth, by which I mean you could see that the phone was using data (more obvious on a limited data plan). So if your mobile data and WiFi is off then there is nowhere for it to go. It could be recorded and uploaded later, but you could test that more easily by watching for an effect when you enable data again. Of course it could be covertly uploading data when data is not enabled, but that would take a special agreement with every mobile operator for specially marked unbilled data usage. It seems that a lot of people would have to be kept quiet if that is happening.

As regards the comment that what one person does on their device affects the ads seen on a different device; if they are on the same WiFi connection they are sharing the same IP address so that could explain the link.

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Yes, that is explicitly stated in the LG User Agreement, and presumably [perhaps less explicitly] in others.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ and here’s an interesting glimpse at the other side:

https://www.exchangewire.com/blog/2020/11/12/unruly-and-lg-electronics-to-offer-smart-tv-inventory-through-global-partnership/

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https://www.lg.com/global/business/webos

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/03/2021 20:10:54

One should be worried. It's not just Amazon or Google but credit card companies tracking purchase types, supermarkets, Systems tracking your GPS, systems listening for key words and a whole slew of facial recognition following you around.
It may seem innocuous but the freedom you value is eroded by the manipulations possible with all this data under the guise of protecting you and saving costs.

Fictional dystopian societies have 5 classic themes:
Government control, environmental destruction, technological control, loss of individualism and survival. The first four are already in hand.

We've lost much freedom of speech and the latest bill curbs aspects of protest and demonstration...

... it wasn't so long ago there were riots at the thought of identity cards and now most people pay to carry one called a smart phone..

pgk

Thought-provoking... the concept of a "smart"-'phone being an ID card.

I must admit I'd not thought of it like that.

Put like that, it goes far further; and whilst I am against them for their aura of assumed-guilt by suspicious authorities who are meant to serve me, not vice-versa... an ID card is just that, a card.

All the more reason for my not having a "smart" phone.

And for my taking many of the precautions Silly Od Duffer states, including the different pass-word for every account. Some are purely random but when I use words I am careful to use obscure ones not relevant to the account and unlikely to yield to prediction or guesses.

I don't use Linux though, because I lack the IT knowledge to install it and transfer everything to it safely and intact.

'

Like others, I am not worried by GCHQ wondering who this 'Harrison L5' bloke is, and for which regime he is an agent; but I am concerned with Google &c pondering my use of it.

Modern Linux versions have a much lower threshold for easy of use than older ones. Linux Mint Mate/Cinnamon look and behave in a very similar way to Windows (somewhere between 7 and 10).

The obscure/random passwords are good. It's especially important not to use the same ones for insecure sites as secure ones (like banks!). There was a site set up some years ago with a vast archive of football match results and statistics. It was free to join, but you had to create a username and password. The site was set up by scammers who were harvesting the usernames and password to test against secure sites.

One thing to bear in mind is that passwords are not (or should not) be stored as the text you type but as a "hash" of the original password. This is the reason why you are encouraged to use mixed case and numbers/punctuation. It increases the size of the hash stored, making it less likely to match a guessed password. You can have a very long password with only a few different letters and the resulting hash number can be quite small and may match other simple passwords. Add some numbers and punctuation and the complexity of the stored number can grow rapidly!

Can't tell if some of these posts are tongue in cheek or serious? Jokes or paranoia?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm in IT. Paranoia is part of the job description. Jokes are optional, although humour is forbidden.

Just to be clear, this is the Linux-GUI application you are talking about rather than the underlying Linux right?

Edited By Peter Greene on 28/03/2021 00:30:18

Well as the thread starter i feel that we as forum members could all get rich from this. So who's going to write the script for out new sci fi film. WE ARE BEING WATCHED.

Steve.

1984 already had the concept of a TV with built in camera and mike. Fun sci-fi paranoia films include "Enemy of the State" and "Conspiracy Theory" and the lesser "Echelon Conspiracy"
I suspect it'd be harder to write a watchable screenplay that went into the depths of social manipulation/engineering, the buying and selling of behavioural data and the psychology of advertising. Even supermarket shelves aren't stocked randomly - colour and position on the shelves, flavour varieties of a brand to occupy more shelf width, key words on products all affect sales.
Such manipulations used to be fairly primitive from simply having coffee or fresh baked bread odours (also promoted when folk view houses for sale), the occasional feather stuck to egg displays (abandoned for hygeine reasons) and the music played.
Back in the 60's someone figured out that ladies' hormone cycle was associated with periods of 'can't be bothered' and periods of creativity. Remember the cake mixes "quick and simple - just add 2 eggs"? They could have used dried egg but this promotion added creativity to simplicity. Teams of psychologists assss Reality TV contestants to create an interactice mix of behviour types....

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 28/03/2021 05:59:04