Loctite made in China?

I apply a bit of engineering logic to the problem: how good does the glue need to be for the purpose I have in mind? For me, the answer is usually 'not very' in which case I don't waste money on excessively good products.

By far the biggest problem with superglue in my workshop is old product. I mostly use a few drops at a time, maybe once a fortnight, and super-glue goes off, small quantities rather quickly. Joints made with old glue are weaker, then the glues gums up completely. In my workshop cheap unopened Poundshop capsules are better value than a small bottle of expensively but slowly used Loctite. Bigger containers last longer, but if strength matters don't use old glue even if it has a reliable brand-name and cost la small fortune.

Once in a blue moon I make something that does need a reliable joint, or I need a lot of glue in one session, and for that I cough up.

Hobby engineering doesn't have the same high standards as safety-critical 'real' engineering. We don't do engineering calculations or properly understand everything we do. We often extemporise, for example by using scrap, other sub-optimal materials, bodged work-holding, or adapted tooling. We reduce thread engagements, braze with underpowered torches, weld with primitive equipment, bodge 3-phase, believe ancient tools are wonderful, learn on the job, and rely on processes industry has long since replaced. Most of us enjoy buying 'bargains'. In that context, rushing to buy certificated materials, calibrated tools, and insisting on traceability is likely to be a waste of money, especially if these things are misused in an amateur workshop.

Glue is an example; not only is it essential to buy reputable product that's been stored correctly, it's also necessary to clean joints thoroughly. Cleaning is quite difficult to do properly. Most of my early glue failures were due to dirt and not following the instructions rather than relying on cheap unbranded product. If you want 'quality' everything has to be done right, it's not done by just flinging money about.

Dave

The example I'm thinking of is a lathe handle I'll be building soon, from a kit. It says it requires a silver soldered joint, but advice from on here is to use "Loctite" (currently I have no silver soldering equipment). In this case I don't want to find the retainer has failed just when I need it, so I'll use the right stuff for the sake of the extra few £.

Out of interest, how do you know? If it was the bottle type, do you know it's not just genuine old stock?

Counterfeiters will resort to all sorts of tricks to con the purchaser.

US air filter companies had big problems with the filtering medium being just a toilet roll rather than a proper element.

C.A.V. had a major problem with counterfeit fuel filters. In those days japan was the home of counterfeiters, and one company copied the then current cursive CAV on the filter as GAV. Detailed examination showed the medium to be very inferior.. The whole company colour scheme and logos were changed.

Later a middle eastern scam was brought to my knowledge, in that one of our supplier's product was being very expertly faked. Even to using the correct alloy, and using what appeared to be our aftermarket packaging!

But the give away was the absence of the marks made on the dies which denoted the date of production.

Insignificant, but there if you knew where to look.

The culprits were successfully prosecuted.

So you have to be SO careful!

Howard

I have the same problem, and recently threw out most of a 100g bottle that was supposed to be more economical than buying little ones. It isn't economical to throw away 3/4 of what you buy!

I find the same with cartridges; I rarely use the whole tube, and it's bloody expensive to find the £10 tube of Sikaflex you started 6 months ago has gone off. Delays the job while you get some more, and that's unacceptable. I now buy the cheaper alternatives, and the paint supplier I use often has past its use by date ones for a fraction of the normal price. I buy those and bin the open tube when I've finished the job so I don't waste resources hoarding useless crap.

Most All of my use is non-critical so real savings are made by not buying brands: the thread lock I bought from a fastener supplier several years ago was £3, although they also had genuine Loctite for a lot more. I used to use high quality branded superglue and activator, which I got from work; we were buying 400 bottles at a time. I haven't noticed a difference in performance.

We were told by a Loctite rep that as long as the product was still liquid it was useable. This wasn't a problem considering the rate of use in the factory.

But at home, I and still using bottles that are YEARS old. And they still function as required. But only used in non safety critical situations, just to be on the safe side.

Some years ago, I fabricated backplates for my lathe and used my "past its sell by date" Loctite to retain the ER 25 and ER32 Collet chucks to my backplates whilst they were clocked and centred, and the bolts tightened.

Some years later, a couple of castings were obtained and machined. Removing the bolts and even heavy blows with a copper/hide mallet would not shift the Collet chuck on the steel backplate. Fearing that any heavier blows would do some damage, I gave up and the original assemblies are still inn use

Howard.

Perfect example of a non-critical application - you could use just about any adhesive that will work on metal.

"We were told by a Loctite rep that as long as the product was still liquid it was useable" I fully believe that you were, and indeed may be usable, but we tested out of date loctite scientifically using a Loyds Tensomiter and found that it lost its 'grip' as it got older. This was prompted by customers reporting that their high speed grind stones were flying off their shafts. I personally went around every department and collected all the out of date stuff, there were literally hundreds of bottles! Some of the old boys protested as they had used the same batch for years.

Quick look on Amazon shows that the cheapest 50ml bottle of non-Loctite branded retainer is about £5 cheaper than the real thing. And that's for a large bottle.

So in the grand scheme of costs for Model Engineering materials and equipment, what's the point of not getting the real thing in the first place?

.

Fizzy

I hope you don't mind me digging up an old forum thread : **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=83131&p=1

... it's only two pages, and I think our posts there are relevant to this discussion.

MichaelG.

.

Given the direction that this thread has taken; and the wide range of products that Henkel markets under the Loctite brand... I've just gone back to that opening post, to check what type Andrew purchased.

254 is not listed, so I am none the wiser

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/search.html?searchText=254

**LINK**

... can anyone advise ?

MichaelG.

Since this post has gone sideways a bit ! One trick with super glue type adhesives is to store them in the fridge - They will last years ! and still work. Noel

Process is probably as important as supplier choice.

-Clean, clean , clean all parts (with solvent). Then clean again. Then dry them thoroughly.

- Shake the "loctite" bottle (thoroughly).

- Apply to the thread such that it will be pushed into the joint (not out). Use enough to let it spread around the entire thread.

- Let set for 24 hours. Then clean up with alcohol around the outside of the part (don't do this before setting lest it wick into the joint. -m Excess outside the joint won't set and is easily cleaned).

With red high strength "loctite" (of any stripe) I defy you to get it apart by any normal means

(Epoxy works as well ... ask many in the space-business).

Sorry Michael and all, I should have said Loctite 243 threadlocker. I got the Locttlf version. I didn't realise the spelling wasn't Loctite for a couple of days!

Andrew.

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Thanks, Andrew

MichaelG.

It's very cleverly done - even with the bottles side by side, it isn't obvious.

Where did you buy it from?

I used the Ebay search engine for Loctite 243 and I clicked on one of the first few items. I shall take a bit more care in future. I must admit I didn't spot the fraud for a couple of days!

Andrew.

Generally, the problem isn't 'Made in China' but quality control by managers. (line workers have no say in what they are assembling)

Personally, I wouldn't be able to continue my hobby if it wasn't for 'Made in China'

The labor costs are incredibly low there compared to any industrialised country (same in India although materials can be inferior to Chinese stuff sometimes)

I would like to be able to purchase better quality materials and machines, but, unless your going 'full industrial' most modern stuff is pretty lightweight and cheaply made compared to 1970's and earlier machinery but still has a premium price out of my range.

I recently bought some Loctite 609 Retaining Compound here in the US in one of the small single use 0.5 mL plastic containers. The plastic envelope it's packaged in is marked "Made in the U.S.A." The container itself is marked "07-21" which I take to be its use-by date. Some additional product information I have includes the statement "Storage below 8*C or greater than 28*C can adversely affect product properties." My un-air conditioned and unheated garage shop can easily exceed these parameters in the winter or summer so I keep this in the house.

Also I have some Loctite 226 medium strength thread locker which I bought in February 2018; it's marked to be used by October 2019. It too is made in the U.S.A.

I've never really used the thread locker on anything very critical; probably not even in a situation where it's likely a threaded fastener would have come un-done on its own. On the other hand the retaining compound gets used to emulate a press fit. While no ones' lives depend on any of these assemblies I would really like them not to come undone on their own so I'm a little more particular about its storage and use-by date.

David

Edited By David Lindquist on 05/02/2021 01:18:50

If a nut has to be locked in a safety critical situation, I am a great believer in a castellated nut and a split pin.

Judged by the way in which steering joints were secured on our Renault 5s when we had them, and on other vehicles, I was not alone.

If you have ever been forced to shear off a split pin to remove a nut, you know how secure the locking is!

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 05/02/2021 09:01:06