Covid causing mental health issues.

+1. What is important at this time is to support each other even when we can't relate directly through shared experience in our 'bubbles' of age, income, politics, culture, mental health or whatever.

Robin.

Edited By Robin Graham on 22/09/2020 22:34:57

....Extraordinary!

At Epping Forest Horology Club we have over a hundred members and the majority have not only stayed sane they have pulled together to try ond help everyone else to be as normal as condtions allow.......Only a couple of poeple have completely 'lost the plot' and become uncertain pariahs that everyone else dreads coming into contact with.....

That's the situation,.......but the 'cracks' are beggining to show,...I see it in their faces and read it in their emails and hear it in their stories. These are NOT "snowflakes", these are clever bright capable people,...we have people who ran large companies,..people who were successful professionals, fighter pilots, tank commanders in the gulf war, men who escaped across frontiers equipped with landmines, people who rescued their loved ones, men whose daughters died in their arms, veterans with no legs,.....people who are still standing after the most appalling disasters.

Perhaps the most stressed are those shielding their vulnerable wives and loved ones.....they have completely changed lives without any respite and they are making a good job of it.......but the cracks are showing now.

To think that there are people here who can't or won't see the pain and stress on these people is quite awful to think about and you should be ashamed..........it's irrelevant that the Victorian period had apprently stronger people, and it's also an illusion,....the length of life was much less and huge numbers of people succumed to the simplest illnesses and accidents.......some simply starved to death.

You don't have to be 'weak' or 'barmy' to find the current pandemic extremely challenging and to slowly crack under the constant drip of stress, so PLEASE try to offer some help however little,...and try not to be so bloody ignorant!

Yes, quite sure covid has raised many peoples stress levels.

Helps to switch the News off~ It's like a constant drip." worse than Brexit" was one work colleagues comment.

Helps to have a hobby or two eg: ME

Helps to have good friends & family.

& if your of a curious pursuasion~ google "Rockefeller 'Lockstep scenario' "

~ I emailed the pdf docs to Boris in Spring, somehow i doubt he ever read them. Oh well.

You've answered your own question right there. But not everyone is the same as you. Many people are gregarious, ie extroverts, and by nature require more company and outside stimulation than you introverts do. Many others are married etc but don't get along as well with their partner as you do so lockdown wears thin very quickly. Others have no partner at home so lockdown amounts to solitary confinement -- the toughest punishment reserved for the baddest eggs in the hardest prisons. And not everyone has the financial security (or genteel poverty perhaps) of being retired like you are so have major stress relating to working from home or not working at all and scratching for a quid.

As Dale Carnegie said, put yourself in the other guy's shoes before you get too critical.

And as for the Victorians, well the proliferation of gin mills and widespread abuse thereof was probably one symptom of widespread depression and anxiety.

More recently, the suicide rate went up considerably in the Depression of the 1930s, which tells us that previous generations were not impervious to mental health problems and also serves as a warning that the current economic and social crisis arising from Covid19 could have serious a mental health impact.

Edited By Hopper on 23/09/2020 00:06:51

IQ was always the average of the population= 100 but with any statistic and particularly when it is determine by low population numbers you have to eliminate the wild cards. Statistically invalid but for your example the new IQ would be 110 (on the old scale) so 1 each above and below and a wild card.

pgk

One of the functions of the Men's Shed movement is to provide this kind of support environment for people who are lonely or needing someone to talk to outside thier family. And by providing a men only situation similar to the old traditional workplace for many it is a comfortable situation, a home from home like a shed at the bottom of the garden but with some friends too.
Some people get the same from their gang of regulars down the pub, a sports club or a bunch of football supporters meeting at a match.
Then some people get this from their hobby club, whether knitting, art, pottery and......making models. Yes the Model Engineer's clubs are a form of Men's Shed providing psycological support for those who need it, even those who don't realise they need it. I have mentnioned this at one of my ME clubs and got shot down by some, appreciated by the more intelligent.

Oh, yes, social media and forums too. This forum is providing quite a few people with a community contact amongst 'friends' and like at the pub a few assholes too. Shock Horror. You just got some mental health improvement by reading my post.

Personnaly the effect on me of lockdown has been the opposite as not having to go to work or shed, clubs and church has given me a pleasant freedom from direct human contact. I think my true calling is as a hermit.

Just my 2c.

I'm in my mid 30s and only got into ME after a car accident prevented me doing my other hobbies. (Skydiving and scubadiving.)

Most of the gents in my local club are retired and either live with their partner or alone. Those who are alone really struggled as the ME club, or going to the shop was one of the few times they could meet other people.

At the height of lockdown here in Ireland, they were prevented from doing both of those activities, meaning they were completely isolated.

Closer to home, I consider myself lucky as I rent out a room in my house to a couple around my age, and have a partner. I also have a home office, so working remotely was not a big deal to me. I also have constant contact with 3 other people. (housemates and partner)

Some of the people I work with live alone in a 1 bed flat with no space for an office. (Rent in Dublin is crazy.) They are forced to work remotely (luckily they are still in work) but from a laptop sat on their bed for 40h/week, as they don't have any space.

Separately, a lot of my friends and people I know, would be in regular contact with their parents/grandparents. They had to stop all / most physical contact, as they were worried about passing the infection on to their vulnerable family members.

I think the big thing here is everyone is different, and people cope with things differently.

If you cope with bad news/days by meeting friends, this sucks for you.

if you enjoy seeing family/friends, this sucks for you.

If you enjoy going to the pub for a pint with friends, this sucks for you.

If you live alone and most of your contact with people is through clubs/societies, this sucks for you.

If you are lucky and not feeling any limitations on your life, you are lucky, and many people I know would love to be in your situation.

One of the other side effects of all this working remotely, (for the people lucky like me who can work remotely, comfortably) is that there is no clear distinction with work and non-work time. Lots of people are working far longer hours than they would normally, and are feeling pressure there. My manager quite happily fires off emails and calls often as late as midnight. even on weekends. He lives alone, and so he is probably bored which is why he's working. But that then pressures other people to work later.

I personally don't think it's a single thing causing people issues. Its normally a few issues compounded up, with no real outlets or ways to release them back to a good place.

I'm pretty lucky in that I got into ME about 2 years ago so I have loads of projects on the go, (probably too many) and a few different places to seek help if I'm stuck. ME is also quite a solitary hobby compared to others. (e.g. sports) and we get our enjoyment from the process and the results. And thankfully, Covid is very supportive of this type of hobby.

Lastly, when I first got into this, lots of my friends thought I was odd for having this as a hobby, at my age. Now almost all of them are jealous I have something which I enjoy which can occupy so much of my time. Lots of them are now searching for similar hobbies, like painting, musical instruments, crafts, cooking, drawing, model trains, etc. I find it very strange how few people have what I would call a real hobby, nowadays. We are definitely in the minority for that!

Stay safe people. And keep sharing your builds. It's a great motivator, and really satisfying seeing what others can do.

D

Edited By Del Greco on 23/09/2020 10:38:38

I'm usually quite good at staying cheerful - then I read this thread

Rik

Keep calm and carry on modelling.

I'll cheer you up!

Nothing like some music & dance to lift the spirit.

'Staying apart brings us closer together'.

Martin.

Is that not the median rather than the average?

regards Martin

What perspective?

The Yorkshire mills were recruiting all over the country. They went to Bradford the same way Jeremy Paxmans family did when they left Suffolk, on an organised trip to an organised job.

I always knew there was a reason that I disliked statistics! 😬

David

I love statistics. With care you can prove anything with them.

JA

In the 1930s work was available at the car factory in Oxford, many people walked from South Wales to Oxford to get work, enough made the trip for a new housing estate in Cowley to become known as Cowley Welsh. I am sure desperation was a factor in making the journey rather than a desire to move to Oxford.

Mike

Stiff upper lip lol. What the hell even was that? Too many old giffers here who think they fought WW2 but were actually in their father's knackers at the time.

Well said.

Mental health problems are as individual as people. The original poster is, by his own admission, happy with his lot and clearly the Covid situation hasn't affected his lifestyle and I hope that continues, but many people are affected in various ways by this year's events, some very seriously.

The thread/conversation has as always, diverted 'off track' and I don't understand what IQ has to do with mental health. Where did that come from? Some of the greatest brains around have suffered from mental health, depression isn't selective!

My take is the thread isn't about Covid or Mental Health either. I think it's about a perception elderly men have had since time immemorial. We believe young folk today are feckless, weak and useless compared with their superb forefathers!

Chaps who feel this way are in good company: Aristotle and the Romans thought the same. However, the theme repeats itself from generation to generation and across cultures. If it were true, civilisation couldn't exist, and it does. The belief is wrong.

One give away is it doesn't matter how old you are, in the opinion of your elders and betters you too were rotten to the core in your youth:

• 1938 “Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.”
• 1945 “…in youth clubs were young people who would not take part in boxing, wrestling or similar exercises which did not appeal to them. The ‘tough guy’ of the films made some appeal but when it came to something that led to physical strain or risk they would not take it.”
• 1951 “Many [young people] were so pampered nowadays that they had forgotten that there was such a thing as walking, and they made automatically for the buses… unless they did something, the future for walking was very poor indeed.”
• 1984 “A few [35-year-old friends] just now are leaving their parents’ nest. Many friends are getting married or having a baby for the first time. They aren’t switching occupations, because they have finally landed a ‘meaningful’ career – perhaps after a decade of hopscotching jobs in search of an identity. They’re doing the kinds of things our society used to expect from 25-year-olds.”
• 1993 “What really distinguishes this generation from those before it is that it’s the first generation in American history to live so well and complain so bitterly about it.”
• 2001 “They have trouble making decisions. They would rather hike in the Himalayas than climb a corporate ladder. They have few heroes, no anthems, no style to call their own. They crave entertainment, but their attention span is as short as one zap of a TV dial.”
• 2020 "Where is the stiff upper lip? How would these people go on if they had been alive 200 years ago? Ever heard of cutting your coat according to your cloth? Sorry, I have no sympathy with these snowflakes."

Examples all pinched from 'History Hustle' apart from the last, which is Model Engineering Forum.

I suspect old-chaps belittle the young for psychological reasons. I'm finding being an ex-Alpha-male difficult to accept now I'm retired. Once a mighty power in the land now I'm told to take care by ignorant boys in their fifties. And I'm not trusted to go shopping for a loaf of bread without a list.

Out in the world things are constantly changing without my approval, and I don't get half of what's going on. Surely it's enough to know who the Rolling Stones are!

A very natural reaction is to reject change because old dogs can't learn new tricks. Therefore all new things are bad.

To counterbalance this sense of decay, I now believe I'm a wise old sage. I may not understand smart phones, but I am fully qualified to make to choose how the country should be managed. As my time is short, quick results are needed from measures that won't effect me: bring back hanging, national service and the birch. It's about power: I must assert my authority, otherwise I am a zero.

In truth, human nature hasn't changed at all. Society is much the same as it ever was, and grandad doesn't like it, often with good reason. But trailing behind is our problem, not the youngsters. They have to deal with the future, not us. The job includes clear up our considerable mess as well as facing new challenges. The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there. Accept it and let the youngsters get on.

Final thought: if young people really are snowflakes, it's entirely their parents and grandparents fault. No different from making stuff on the lathe - if the result is bad, you know exactly who cocked-up!

I've every sympathy for anyone finding Covid difficult. It must be the worst crisis this country has faced since 1941. Poly-trauma to businesses, families and individuals. Covid may be no more than a mild inconvenience to retired persons with no debts who can isolate but be aware millions are taking a good kicking. Too easy to say other folk should be brave when you haven't tasted the whip yourself.

Dave

IQ is considered to have a 'normal' distribution:

But while it's 'true' that 50% of the population are below average IQ that really doesn't say anything in itself. Even if we were all high-functioning genius, half would still be below average. In fact IQ tells us very little that is useful about how well people will do in their lives socially or professionally except at the extremes, and even people with above average IQ can have learning disabilities (e.g. dyslexia/reading difficulties depending on your perspective).

I've certainly found that whether someone is 'clever' or not is a definitely not a measure of their worth.

Neil