Dishwasher detergents

Just make sure they have built in salt and rinse aid. Some very cheap ones are just detergent.

The Aldi/Lidl ones are as good as Finish IMHO.

Still worth adding salt unless you have very soft water.

| So mostly washing soda,

If I run out of tabs, I just put washing soda in the dispenser.

Neil

It's worse with the cars, and possibly some other goods, thanks to the OEM scam.

The manufacturers use many components common across makes and models but hide them behind complicated part-numbers, badged packaging and intimidating warnings about fitting only "original genuine parts" - then price them pro-rata with the vehicle's retail price.

I encountered this first back in the 1970 or 80s when someone published a book of cross-referenced parts tables: original, not pattern, parts, too. The review in my local paper's motoring pages highlighted one example, the brake disc for a particular BMW costing twice that for a particular Ford... it was the same disc, made in the same brake-parts factory.

More recently a VW main dealer told me that the company had two big central warehouses of spares, one labelled Audi, the other VW... again with big price differences for the same pieces of metal, merely for being in boxes with the different names.

...but why use tablets? That way, you use the amount the tablet manufacturer decrees, irrespective of the greasiness, etc, of the washing up. Use powder, and you can not only use less than the manufacturer recommends, but even reduce that if there's nothing too greasy in there. Tested by experiment over a number of years...

We are in a very soft water area, so no salt needed, and the machine uses rinse aid but fairly sparingly.

Reminds me of the Calgon nonsense - compare its constituents with those of a typical washing powder. You are just adding more of the same.

Whilst I appreciate that often items are made in the same factory and placed in different cartons for resale, I have had a situation where this was not true. To be fair, the situation was 30 years ago, and hence things may well be different today, but it does make me be rather cautious.

Back then I used to do my own car maintenance and bought disc pads from a local fast turn over parts place. After a few incidents of severe brake fade under heavy load conditions, I mentioned it to my tame mechanic, who on descovering where I had obtained the pads recommended going back to the manufacturers originals, even though they were twice the price. I can't remember the exact details but apparently the pattern parts were not getting rid of the braking heat quickly enough, something to do with the brass content.

Changing back to manufacturers originals drastically improved braking efficiency, and I never had another brake fade experience. I should point out that for normal running around, the pattern parts seemed ok - it was only whilst descending long steep hills, eg Hard Knott in the Lake District, that the problem became apparent.

Peter G. Shaw

A large proportion of the mince pies eaten in the UK at Christmas come from the Mr Kipling factory in Hampshire. In fact, they have probably already started making them, as they get shipped to enormous cold stores around the country to await the Christmas season. About October, usually...

However, although Mr Kipling makes mince pies for a number of brands, in-store own brands and so on, they are actually made to different recipes. Economy of scale in that the "making" equipment is well-used that way, but that doesn't mean that you can't use a bit more or a bit less of various ingredients, or add/remove some of them according to taste/preference/price point. Taking a look at the stacks waiting for loading and distribution and seeing various brand labels doesn't mean that they are the same inside.

I have bought an unbranded component for an Audi (rear screen wiper motor) which claimed to come from the same factory as the originals. Although it arrived in a non-Audi box, it was pretty much identical to the original (barring a small improvement or two which was also true of the current Audi replacement) - but about 70% the price.

Problem is - how do you tell? Same factory could mean different product, or same product/different brand, or possibly something altogether inferior. Tricky one!

Ah, that old chestnut!

Have a look at this. https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/jaguar/x-type/

I admit to being biased as I have had two as well as a Mondeo. Front brakes and cylinder block seem to be about the only things interchangeable.

Thanks for the link to the EWG site. Interesting. We now use Powerball as we have found it very difficult to find our preferred powder, which has been pointed out, can be used in different doses to suite conditions.

In respect of dishwasher tabs they are all quite corrosive of aluminium, they will also cause rusting and pitting of certain grades of stainless steel, for instance cooks knives, it seems that the chemical concentrations are strong enough to destroy the protective oxide layer on certain stainless steels. You just have to be aware which items that you can put in the dishwasher.

in respect of perceived quality of brands, 50 odd years ago the wife worked evening shifts in a food production factory, they produced among other things a range of meat pies for different customers, M & S were a big customer of theirs. The recipe for their products was different from the standard range and their quality control within the factory was very stringent, the pastry after cooking was checked and any not of the required colour were rejected, it may have been only a slight shade difference but it would be rejected. This stringent quality control had an unexpected bonus because visual rejects were sold off at a substantial discount to members of staff, I got to quite like M & S products as a consequence.

Dave W

All I can say is that when working with robots we had them opening and closing doors, boot lids and bonnets for long term operation on the X type and the engineers told us that the floor pan and running gear were Mondeo.

Martin P

Returning to dishwasher tabs - Paul's link to the composition of the Powerballs suggests that there isn't really anything in there to justify the massive price differential. It's a con! I'm in a soft water area though, so maybe that's why I can't see the difference in performance.

Why is salt (NaCl) important? I'd assumed that the dishwasher has an ion-exchange water softener somewhere in there , I can understand that, but then I came across This

Dishwasher salt is used with a ionic exchange softener unit built into your dishwasher (if this is not in place there will still be an ionic reaction with the calcium which limits the amount of lime scale that will be built up).

I'm foxed as to what that 'ionic reaction' might be. I suspect it might be nonsense, but maybe I'm wrong!

Robin.

Considering how much stuff I can put in my dishwasher and have it come out spotlessly clean the price of a tab of whatever flavour seems a pretty good deal. The premium tabs are regularly on offer so it’s not too painful to buy them. 20p to not be a skivey and get on with something I enjoy is good value I feel, of course if cheaper tabs can deliver then its happy days.

Mike

I once ran out of hand cleaner. Needing to wash my hands after fixing something oily on the car I thought a splash of dish washer fluid would do the trick. Soon found out that was a mistake......

John

Most, if not all dishwashers have a built in water softener and do a rinse cycle after the wash. The water softener needs salt to regenerate the ion exchange resin. Salt in the tablet will not do that. Rince aid ( a non foaming detergent ) is dispensed at the end of the cycle to aid drying. Again I doubt if putting it in the tablet will help.

I may just be a sceptic but I suggest that 4 in one or 5 in one tablets are just a marketing gimmick.

As an aside, a few drops of rince aid in water works wonders in the ultrasonic cleaner.

Russell

As an X-type owner, the actual figure is about 45%, representing mostly the engine and floor pan. Having had a Mondeo diesel of the same age the actual driving experience is very different, with the X-Type having a much tighter 'gripping the road' feel.

Irony is that the Mondeo was the Ghia and equipped with vastly more tricks and gadgets, not to mention a lovely 6-speed box!

Neil

While I agree it is best to still use dishwasher salt, if I use cheap tabs in our dishwasher I get very poor results unless I use rinse aid and salt. With 5 in 1 tabs I can get away without using anything else. This is solid experience not advertising or a hunch.

Neil

I think my initial question has been answered - as cheap tabs work for me I shouldn't worry too much about about the possible benefits of the exotic additives in the pricier ones. I'm in a soft water water region though - Staffordshire water is much harder, which is good for brewing, but perhaps less good for dishwashing, so maybe that's the 5 in 1's are a cost effective choice there. Empirical evidence always leads useful theory!

I can't understand what salt does in the tabs, but shall think on't - I was a chemist in a previous life, so can't help wondering..

Robin.