CE Mark - real and fake

I bought a bench power supply from a UK dealer, although plainly of Chinese manufacture. It came with a moulded 3 pin plug which didn't have a fuse, or any means of fitting one, but the whole ting was CE marked. Trading Standards took it up but I never heard the outcome
Wire cutters and a new plug at least cured that, but it didn't last any time at all before the LED displays started playing up

The CE mark will continue to be used, the BSI mark was never mandatory.

Bert

If I bought something that was fitted with an illegal plug, I would return it immediately to the vendor and demand my money back. I certainly wouldn’t use it or modify it in any way.

Bert

Well, certainly any UK manufacturer with intention to market their products in Europe will stick to EU standards. Their customer in the EU will have to ensure that they meet the standards and that the products are CE marked.

BS standards are now pretty much harmonised with the EU standards now anyway.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 18/01/2018 11:16:22

BSI is a funny one

Euro cylinder door locks are typically sourced from one Chinese manufacturer and branded according to client, some have the BS kitemark and either one star or three stars

We are often asked to re-pin locks to key-alike (two or more locks with the same key) or master key (one key will open a particular zone, but the master key will open all zones)

Whilst the manufacturer will supply a pinning kit including all the tooling necessary to re-pin, as soon as we do so, the lock loses it's BS kitemark. The only way the kitemark can be retained is if we come under the client brand and adhere to their procedures for re-pinning, which is proving incredibly difficult to arrange for a variety of reasons

But the external features of the lock remain the same, there is nothing to distinguish a re-pinned BS kitemark lock

It should be said that re-pinning is a common enough Locksmith function

So if anyone offers you a keyed alike or masterkeyed BS kitemarked lock suite - beware

Andy, I assume from the above, that you work for/as a locksmith.

I've just had a new garage/workshop built and used second hand UPVC door and windows off ebay to save some cash. Lead and prism inserts do bring a bit of class though.

Having seen videos of how easy it is to remove euro doorlocks with a vice grip, any recommendations for a more secure version to fit the same holes/mortice.

Don't worry, I won't hold you responsible if one of the local low lifes does get in.

Thanks

Bill

I am not a lock smith but can recommend anti snap high security Eurolocks made by CISA.

Hi Bill, I own a Locksmith and Glazing company and occasionally go out on the tools to keep my hand in - the reason I joined this forum is to develop lock picks, I have a couple in-flight

Brizant Ultion locks are 3* anti snap, anti pick, anti drill, probably the highest security locks on the market with a manufacturer backed guarantee of £1,000 if anyone gains entry through the lock into your property. Having said that, I recently went on a course and learnt how to pick them. Expect to pay ~£75 per lock fitted, we buy in bulk at a significant discount - subject to not infringing advertising rules, there are ways to reduce costs, PM if interested

For additional security, fit a couple of sash jammers to the frames on the inside which will prevent low life from getting in even if they breach the lock

All they had to do was put something SO European (like the flag) on the logo that there would be no way it could be justified to call it china export.

The charade is rather silly.

I'd not heard the term 'Sash Jammers' before so I Googled it. They appear to be simple turnbuckle type things but lockable. Not much use on the final exit door anyway.

To me they are unsightly and look to be a fudge to make up for shortcomings of the window/door hinging and locking arrangements. One could argue that if these were needed say on a new house or a double glazing installation, that the original equipment was supplied but not fit for purpose!

I'm all for having secure premises and am sure these things are another deterrent but why should they be required?

Because anything that can be opened from outside with a mechanical key can be picked.

Of course in the future, you will unlock your door using your phone... as long as it isn't flat.

Not many windows have locks needing keys on the outside!

Ian P

Check your home insurance policy

If it says "...make secure..." then you will end up with the cheapest - to the insurance company - job possible. If a PVCu gearbox fails on a front door the locksmith may not be allowed to replace it by the insurance company as they have their own people during daytime hours so sash jammers it is, and despite carrying 40+ gearboxes locksmiths don't cover every eventuality, sometimes a second visit after ordering in parts is required

I wouldn't touch bluetooth locks for the forseeable future, there are warning around explaining how they are vulnerable to attack

Home security is largely about putting as many barriers and obstacles in the way as possible and hope the opportunist burglar chooses somewhere else less defended

We are definitely deep into topic creep now but how does 'check home insurance' and 'end up with the cheapest job possible' connect with sash jammers?

Sash jammers fixed to PVC frames dont look as if they would deter any one PVC is prone to flexing and the (probably) small self tapping fixings are not very robust.

Ian P

The gearbox sits behind the handles in a PVCu door and actuates the mechanical strip. Gearboxes have a life of approximately 10 years, if the handles do not sit level on a PVCu or Composite door, it's likely the spindle follower has broken and the gearbox is likely to jam, most often with the door closed

The locksmith arrives and opens the door then calls - via up to 3 other companies - eventually to the insuring company which says "sorry, it's a "make secure" policy, please fit sash jammers. Because there is a chain of companies in between, each one wants to take their cut and if they can deliver service cheaper - or upsell their services - to the home owner, then they will do so

The locksmith *could* fit a replacement gearbox but at his own cost, which would eat up all the earnings from the job

Which is why one should check their home insurance policy to ensure there is proper cover in place - and not "make secure", because the home owner usually ends up with a significant bill on top of their insurance

Michael-w, yes you are on track with that, actually caused by a build up of fluff around the felt seal at the rear of the machine next to the heating elements, but this is caused by not cleaning the filter after every use, which also makes the elements run hotter, as it cuts down the air flow.. I was talking with the engineer when he came to do the remedial work (LOL) to our dryer and as we are both involved in the electrical industry, it was quite enlightening. As anyone who has ever been inside a tumble dryer(NOT LIKE THAT!!) will tell you, they are a classic example of minimalist engineering. It really looks as though every component has been reduced until the whole machine is made from parts that have been cheapened and thinned down to the point of almost blinking out of existence. The rear bearing is a tiny lump of oilite bronze running on a 1/4" shaft, and there are no front bearings, the tub is supported on three PTFE pads which the tub skids round on. The drive from the skeleton motor is via a tiny multivee belt direct from the motor shaft and just wrapped round the outside of the tub, and is tensioned by a sprung pressed metal bracket with a plastic pulley. I remarked that it would be almost impossible to reduce the cost of manufacture any more, to which he replied "The latest ones have no belt tensioner fitted, they have substituted an elastic belt"!

Herbert Punter, The low voltage directive and the safety testing, as in PAT or portable appliance testing was a way of creating a new industry (employment), the cost of which would be born by individuals rather than governments, and the whole PAT testing idea is of very questionable value. there are no statistics to show that there was a problem with portable appliance accidents in the first place, and no figures to show if any difference has been made. Most businesses who have to get testing done have now bought their own tester, and do it themselves. There is no requirement for the "professional" who runs a testing business to have ANY relevant training or experience, other than the two day PAT testing course run at many dubious training establishments who are more interested in profit that safety, and to take an electrical safety directive from Europe is frankly laughable, given their notoriously unsafe wiring standards, and their dodgy unshuttered sockets! Of course, you must also remember that it only applies to Portable appliances in the workplace, not in the home, When I started in the electrical industry in 1967 My first few months was spent on workshop repairs, everything from irons and kettles, through vacuum cleaners, to industrial pumps, fans and local authority equipment, virtually everything was BSI compliant, and marked as such, which meant it had been physically tested by an outside agency. Standards have gone through the floor, as has quality of manufacture. Pity the youngsters who think they are spending their hard earned on the peak of modern technology!

You are confusing PAT testing with third party type testing which is carried out at accredited test houses. The test houses are audited by UKAS at least annually. The UKAS audit includes chucking that the testing engineers are sufficiently qualified and experienced to carry out the required testing. The tests will include (depending on the type of apparatus) heating, electric strength, insulation resistance, creepage distances and clearances, accessibility of live parts, earth bonding, internal wiring and connections,mechanical hazards, user Instructions, servicing instructions, connection to the mains supply, physical stability and more.

Bert

Or pity the old chaps who believe that!

Easily tested Phil. Proceed tomorrow to Argos disguised as a youngster and buy an X-box. Note how much it costs as a percentage of your income and work out what you could have bought for the equivalent in 1967. Now take it apart in your garage and write a list of everything in the machine that's poorly made. Take particular note of anything that doesn't work. (Probably zero.) Next identify all the parts that you cannot make in your workshop; that will be almost all of it. Also, note the many parts that could not have been made anywhere in the world, even an advanced research facility, 20 years ago.

I think what's going on is value engineering. In the past, because materials were poorly understood, it was common for things to be heavily built from the best available materials. Over-engineered and correspondingly expensive, they lasted well. Not value for money though and most of it long since scrap. Modern kit is much more lightly built. It is engineered down to a price, usually very effectively for its intended working life. Of course cheap tat is still being made. Rubbish has always sold to the unwary and it still is. 'Caveat Emptor' said the Romans.

I suggest a new car or a TV set is far more representative of modern industry than cheap electrical parts. Old cars have plenty of character, but they rust, pollute, need lots of maintenance, are heavy, unsafe and low mpg. Modern cars are more refined in every way and they're relatively cheaper too. Morris Marina or Vauxhall Corsa, you tell me which is better?

Dave

In respect of electrical standards and supplied equipment, I recently purchased a good quality and relatively expensive air pump, needed for my other hobby of Koi keeping, yes some of use do have interests other than model engineering; the new air pump is manuctured, sorry supplied by a premier British supplier of aquatic equipment, almost certainly made in China, when I unpacked it I found the supply lead was fitted with a continental 2 pin plug, horrible things inherently unsafe. I contacted the British supplier and queried why it was sold in this country with a plug other than the standard 3 pin British requirement, his answer was “ cut it off and put a 3 pin plug on” , I was under the impression that there was legislation that required all electrical equipment sold in the UK was to have a standard 3 pin plug with accessible fuse fitted, the purpose being to prevent Joe public, who may not understand the process involved with fitting the correct plug, from possible electrocution. The suppliers advice of cut it off and fit the correct one was possibly not legal in the circumstances. Problem was solved because the air pump was hard wired to a distribution board dealing with all the “ outside” electrical circuits.

Dave W

PS the pump was CE marked for what it was worth.