Duplicate Articles?

Thanks. Now I have a title, I do recall seeing it in the past.

Brian

Because some people 'quote' a comment they are replying too. Sometimes without deleting irrelevant parts.

Neil

As Neil say,s most new members,like myself,are lone hands,and if we have no interest in building locos,they are even more so,as far as clubs are concerned. This showed up a few times on this forum.As far as I know,there are no clubs in this part of the world,but even if there were,I doubt if too many members would be interested in building model locos.We tend to regard locos as things for pulling trains,full stop ! At the same time,I have great respect for those people who can build these models,for which I have neither the skill nor the interest. Their workmanship is top class. It,s just not my thing,nor many others,it would appear.

My interest is in learning as much as I can in the time I have left,regarding machining skills for lathe/mill. Looking at the questions on this forum,I am not alone ! For us,CNC 3D Printing ect is way down the line,so I just pass by that stuff,for now. Even DRO,s are not on my "must have"

Should I just crawl away and hide ?

Harry plenty of us out here with similar views although DROs have made it onto my milling machine. No need to crawl away and hide even if you do someone will track you down in my case SMEE who asked me to be a speaker at one of thier meetings.

Just to say, don't be afraid to mention EiM - it does us good to have a third title in the market to keep us on our toes, although I'm sure our magazines have the edge

There's no bad blood and no rules against mentioning EiM or discussing articles in it here.

Neil

Larry,

I agree 100% with you. And no, don't crawl away and hide, just be proud that you, and me, are learning to use our brain and hands in co-ordination together.

People ask me what I do with my machinery. my answer is always: "Self-education by experimentation, and if I happen to find something that I can use those skills on, then that's even better".

In respect of magazines, I used to take ME, then added MEW when it first started, then dropped ME as it did nothing for me. I've looked occasionally at EIM, but it has never struck me as being worth having. MEW rules, OK!

Peter G. Shaw

Strange?

EiM are said to be in decline, yet they run the majority of the remaining model engineering exhibitions.

ME and MEW claim to be doing well but seem to have given up on the once presdigious MEX

Edited By mike T on 22/11/2017 21:32:13

Edited By mike T on 22/11/2017 21:32:33

I think it is splitting hairs to say the series in ME and MEW are not duplicates. I didn't say they were, but obviously they are, or should be, covering the same ground. There may only be an overlap of 20%, but darn it, we're the 20% and we demand to be heard.

Still this thread has answered one question. I was more than surprised to see the article on the screwcutting clutch in MEW. When I visited the author a few years back (we'd been discussing home made spark plugs over a period of a few months) it was made clear that the ME/MEW stable was persona non grata. I was told to look at EIM for publishing my articles. I did look at their T&Cs, but wasn't overwhelmed. I have a recollection of getting a free copy of EIM a good few years back at the Midlands model exhibition. It was not a bad magazine, but it didn't wow me enough to subscribe. I haven't seen a copy since, so I'm not in a position to judge it's current state.

It's rather sad that some people only seem to be interested in relearning what is already known. Sure old school techniques are still useful, and even I've been known to mark out and hand file and drill parts. But there are also new techniques coming along that change the way things are done, or create completely new ways. I like learning and using them too. It's what shapes the world. When building my traction engines I think about what the original workers would have thought if confronted with some of the modern techniques. I expect some would have embraced them, and some would have dismissed them. And those that dismissed them would have promptly gone out of business.

As for the original question about which, if any, magazine to cancel all I will say is just be careful that readers other than beginners aren't forgotten.

Andrew

Meridienne, who specialise in many different modelling related exhibitions sold EiM to Warner's Group a year or more ago.

Running exhibitions and publishing require very different approaches, but that said we haven't given up on MEX!

Neil

No greater fool than the politician who chooses their policy according to the loudest voice, and the same goes for editors who set their editorial policy the same way. Don't begrudge space for others' ineterests if you want space for your own!

But how many hobby magazines have this much variety from technical to basic in one issue:

9 SHAPING UP

Bill Morris kicks of a short series on shapers with a bit of history and a guide to how they work.

13 SIMPLE CUTTERS FOR CLOCK PINIONS AND WHEELS

A straightforward explanation and method for making you own clock gears from Ted Knight.

9 A GUIDE TO MAKING SPUR GEARS WITH THE JACOBS HOBBER

Christopher Robinson continues his beginner’s guide to using a Jacobs Gear Hobbing Machine.

22 2017 METAL OF THE YEAR

And the winner is… announced by Jacques Maurel.

27 JOHN STEVENSON

We mark the passing of one of most familiar faces at the engineering shows.

28 LATHEWORK FOR BEGINNERS

This month Neil Wyatt cuts some metal, looking at basic turning.

34 3D PRINTING FOR THE WORKSHOP

Another interesting application of 3D printing from Darren Conway.

38 INDEX FOR ISSUES 249 TO 260

The latest index compiled by Barry Chamberlain.

42 THE 2017 CHRISTMAS CHALLENGE

The results of our recent competition.

44 POLISHING ON THE LATHE

Chris Gabel looks at the advantages of synthetic abrasives.

47 A SCREWCUTTING CLUTCH FOR THE MYFORD ML7

Graham Meek continues his description of this invaluable accessory.

46 ENHANCEMENTS TO THE SIEG SUPER X1L

Mike Cox and his power feed for the X1L.

60 SILVER SOLDERING

Keith Hale offers some advice to the novice in silver soldering.

65 AN IMPROVEMENT TO A FILING REST

No rest for the wicked – Peter Shaw had to update his 2014 device..

Regulars

3 ON THE EDITOR’S BENCH

Have your workshop projects stalled?

57 ON THE WIRE

More news from the world of hobby engineering

59 READERS’ TIPS

This month, tiny collets for tiny studs.

63 SCRIBE A LINE

Do you have a Merlin engine in your workshop?

67 READERS’ CLASSIFIEDS

Another pageful of great deals!

Two mentions of beginner and one of novice, but I'd argue that printing the FIRST proper guide to using a Jacobs Hobber is of far wider interest than just beginners and that Keith Hale's silver soldering advice will be useful to many as well.

Neil.P.S. I'm worried now that if I publish one of your articles you'll cancel your sub on the grounds you've read it already...

Neil, We have only had one MEX in the last three years. Are there any plans for another?

Mike

A bit early to say but I think this is where the two series will differ, I know that Neil's will be very much based on the machines and methods that are currently available. From the first article I get the impression that Graham's will be a lot more "old school"

J

Hang on a bit Andrew. Don't forget that there are some people, me for one, who do not know the "already known". Are we then to ignore all that? Plus, some of the "already known" is historical and as I get older, I find myself realising that some history is actually of interest to me.

I think there is a lot to be said for learning, and yes even practicing, the basics. It's alright using CNC, but what happens when something goes wrong? Is it the programming? Or could it be that the basic theory/knowledge was lacking? At least if you have done the "already known" then that to me at least is another weapon in the armoury of sorting out what has gone wrong.

There is another consideration. I do not have the quantity or quality of equipment that you appear to have at your disposal. And I certainly can't afford it. So therefore I have to adopt old methods of working.

Furthermore, I have no interest in programming - I have done some many years ago, so I know I can do it, and that's the end of it, no further interest. On the contrary, I am attempting to master my lathe and milling machine, and that's where the interest lies - learning how to get round the myriad problems that develop.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

The one we are all waiting for!

When is the paper MEW 262 on the bookshelves Neil?

Next week, subs copies about Tuesday, the electronic one is ready and will be available in a few days.

Andrew

To answer the original question, for you, either ditch ME or half ditch it by going digital only.

Reasons.

You have a major project on with the 2 traction engines so long project series are not going to be of direct interest.

If you want an opinion or some information you didn't know you can ask on the forum an example being your governer design.

You get much of the chit chat, here on the forum so it feels like you are involved.

Everything gets a little tedious after a while.

A change is as good as a rest so why not spend the money on really old back issues for a while.

Well you did ask.

Personally I would say I look forwards to MEW more than ME at the moment. If I had more time on my hands I would probably enjoy wading through my accumulated back issues of ME and enjoy them more than I do at the minute. I shall probably stop taking at least the paper version of ME at some stage having built up enough to keep me going in old age (sometime in the future yet, hopefully) and I am running out of space to keep them all.

best regards Martin

To Peter Shaw,I say,"Welcome to the club",since it seems we are both in the same boat !

I too spend hours with my machines and produce nothing at the end of it,but so what?,for me the interest is in the doing,not in the end product. To be able to say "I know how to do that operation now" is an end in itself. Simple things like that keep me happy [let the others snigger away,who cares? ] From time to time I actually manage to repair something,using my new found skills,this I regard as a bonus.

It,s nice to read about all these wonderful things others can do,good luck to them,perhaps if I live long enough,I might get there too,but in the meantime my aim is just to enjoy pottering around,and who knows,some day I might even make something !!!!!

Actually I do read my own articles, to see what has been edited. As far as I'm aware you don't have any more of my articles in "stock", so there's no danger of me cancelling a subscription on the grounds mentioned.

We differ on what constitutes technical. I find myself being disappointed by good sounding articles, that then deal with the how, but not the why. Let's take a recent example, the articles on extending the capabilities of the Jacobs gear hobber. I don't have a gear hobber, and most likely never will, but I am interested in gears so I have read the articles. The article mentions a double enveloping worm. It's probably me being dumb but I don't understand how it was cut. But what really interests me is understanding the design, and that wasn't mentioned. If I can draw something I can probably make it, but not vice versa. In a similar vein, despite a lengthy discussion on this forum, I still don't really understand the tooth shape on a worm wheel. I've reached a bit of a dead end on searches, so I'm not sure where to look for further information.

I'm realising that I'm somewhat out of step with the model engineering world, so may be it's time to move on?

Andrew

PS: Forgot to mention that the articles by Jacques Maurel do try and explain the what and why, as well as the how, which I enjoy.

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 23/11/2017 12:13:23

As a writer and some-time editor of specialist magazines for more than 50 years, I find some of the discussion above most interesting. The fact is the economics of the publishing business now, compared with the 1960s and 70s, are far different. For instance, the specialist publication I worked on in the late 1960s and early 70s sold 170,000 copies weekly. Now it sells fewer than 26,000. All printed media is suffering in the same way, and losing out to on-line sources of information.

In general, magazines just can't afford to take the high risk of running exhibitions, and in many cases can't afford to take stands at exhibitions run by other folks. Neither can magazines afford to employ large editorial staffs - if fact, I wonder how much ME's apparently big staff were paid in years gone by. My guess would be not much.

Then we come to the business of apparently telling readers information they already know. It may be true in the case of long-term readers like the majority of contributors to this forum, but I can't believe it applies to the majority of ME and MEW readers. It has always been my belief that people take specialist magazines during the time when they are hungry for knowledge. In other words, when they are relatively new to a hobby. Research by my former employer (the EMAP group, at the time Britain's second-biggest magazine publisher) suggested that there was, in general and discounting the ever-loyal few, a five-year turn around in readership. To all of these new readers, the information that the few of us may find old and boring is, to them, new and fresh.

Of course, if ME and MEW would join the Audit Bureau of Circulations, we would all have a clearer picture. But that's another argument, isn't it Neil? I guess that, even if you know the sales figures, the suits upstairs insist you keep it a closely-guarded secret.

A Mike said,"What,s old hat to most members is brand new to new comers"

Too true !