Plans for updating the archaic forum?

Maybe, maybe not Michael as it all depends on how MTM decide to customise the forum for our use, take a look at the RCM&E one that Ketan linked to as that is in the early stages of what we may end up with here.

Having logged into the RCM&E one as I was a member anyway most of what you have just quoted is no different to here, you can customise your profile which is really things like how you want posts to open as mentioned earlier, notifications, avitar, etc.

Private inbox is basically the PM system we have here but a lot more user friendly.

Ranking, points etc are something the admin can decide to include or not.

Jason & Frances

... My post was really just a gut-reaction to the hideous ‘look & feel’ of the linked site.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Here’s one brief quote from the page that opened when I tried Ketan’s link:

Oh God . You changed something we all knew and worked well .. welcome to the future where we can’t find anything or are lost .. progress and at least it will be quiet for a while 

.

Amen to that !!

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/02/2021 10:32:08

That site Jason posted the link to has made my head spin and prevented my eyes correctly focusing on the text for about 20 seconds, if that's what's coming count me out.
I know the site is about astronomy as it was like looking into the galaxy with a lot of bright stars.

As has been said most of the new formats are space hungry so reducing the viewing of articles posted but do have many features that remain unused by the majority it seems.

I am in the group who do not welcome change unless it is for the better and I fail to see how these new formats provide an improved experience.

Emgee

Just taken a look at the star gazers lounge. I find it extremely difficult to read. What idiot uses white letters on a black background?

This is the sort of idiocy that puts people off.

Andrew

Of the sites Neil sent me some examples of I found this one the easiest on the eyes as mentioned yesterday, if you set the site to zoom 125% then I get big easy to read messages and no blank spaces on my PC screen. I expect there is a similar pale green option to make you feel more like still being on this site

The white on black is probably quite easy on the eyes if you want to check up on latest posts while out in the dark looking up at the sky

Edited By JasonB on 12/02/2021 10:41:44

Well I can barely read that site. BUT i can win points for contributions. No thanks

regards

edit spelling

Edited By Oldiron on 12/02/2021 10:42:20

Posted by
Howi 12/02/2021 10:02:38
to put an end to this nonsense lets have a poll, change the forum or
leave as is, I would suspect the latter.

Do you think that they would really be interested in your opinion
or mine.

From Jason's later post

At 12/02/2021 10:16:26

Maybe, maybe not Michael as it all depends on (how MTM decide to
customise the forum for our use), take a look at the RCM&E one that
Ketan linked to as that is in the early stages of what we may end up with here.

From the part in brackets it would seem the decision has already been made ,
they just have not announced it yet.

John

"Dark mode", as they call it, is a way of making your phone battery last longer, but is a right pain for reading stuff. I very rarely access forums (fora?) on my phone anyway.

Rob

Err, me! White on black reduces glare and is less tiring. It's preferred for heavy screen users and I see the most common criticism of made by RCM&E members is of excessive white space. They think the new layout is too loud, too bright!

Ideally, a forum would allow the user to choose which way round his display is. Might be possible on RCM&E but if available it probably requires the user to be somewhat computer savvy - not everyone's cup of tea.

I remarked earlier that emotion is a rotten master. Is it likely the people designing RCM&E are idiots? I doubt it. Truth is, getting look and feel right is difficult because people vary so widely.

Dave

White on black: my impression is that its popularity is largely due to the lower current needed to drive the screen.

In the early days of word processing yellow on blue was favoured.

SOD, I DO have a great deal of difficulty in reading the white lettering on a black background. The longer I read the worse it gets, until I start to get a headache. I do a considerable amount of reading and have never had eye fatigue in this way. My usual book reading sessions are around 2 to 3 hours

Seriously I would have to give up the forum if that is going to happen The current format of black on a grey background is ideal, it also gets away from the complaint of being "too bright"

Andrew.

Black on brilliant white high contrast is frowned on by RNIB and ideally neads to be a user customisable but equally some people's sight impairment needs a high contrast option.
Back in 1980 the BBC computer specifically used white on blue as being the most eye friendly.

Often it is little features that are significant and you wonder why nobody called them out in initial user testing. Eg on another forum to launch with the latest post of a thread you have to click a tiny little target - technically it does work but surely the first actual user told them it should be ten times the size.

John Pace posted at 11.09 on 12/02/21 : From the part in brackets it would seem the decision has already been made , they just have not announced it yet.

- I am not so sure John. Advertisers have yet to be approached. I hope that what they are doing with RCM&E is an experiment rather than set in stone, before considering to roll out across their other sites. If the RCM&E experiment is the direction, it looks like they will be far less dependent on advertisers... going the self sufficient route. Personally I am not a fan of adverts flashing in-between posts of a thread, as it is difficult to focus on the topic. I am also not a fan of grey text, but that is my opinion only.

SOD posted at 11.58 on 12/02/21 : Is it likely the people designing RCM&E are idiots? I doubt it.

- Well, that depends on how many people they end up pleasing, and every person has their own mind.

- Before rolling out on the possible NEW LOOK ME forum, I hope they look at and read the contents of this thread. Note the following:

• the demographics of RCM&E are probably younger than that on this forum.
• On ME there is a good mix of older and younger (over 30 years of age) audience.
• MTM needs to be aware that the older generation with knowledge on this forum are the people who mainly make up the main content of this forum, and teach the younger people who are entering the hobby. Older generation doesn't like drastic changes to take place quickly.
• MTM needs the older generation to attract the younger audience. At the same time, the younger audience may like the flash bang hip stuff offered by cool looking forums to invite them in. So, some compromise may be considered... but not too drastic.
• ME forums world ranking is far higher than any of the other titles in its portfolio:

ME ranks around 322,000 today, RCM&E ranks around 1.6 million, Model boats 9M, getwoodworking 2.2M, Patchwork & Quilting 6.6M, Stamp and Craft Stamper ... too low for classification. As of today, ME is the highest ranked in the world within the metalworking hobby sites.

So, whatever direction MTM decides to take, they may need to keep the above in mind... to keep their audience.

Ketan at ARC

I 100% agree Andrew. The text colour & background colour on this forum is ideal for me.

I have great difficulty reading virtually any mixture of colored text on coloured back ground. Am waiting for eye operation but God alone knows when that will be. I doubt there will be a huge improvement after the op.

regards

I can't use the black background when reading text.

I think some use that background to create a dramatic effect, and differentiate themselves from a crowded forum landscape.

The black background is too hard on my eyes.

But ironically, I do CAD work for a large part of every day, and I have to use a black background for that.

I tried a white background with CAD work, and it produces the same eye strain as viewing text on a black background.

Go figure. I am not sure what is at play with the background and the difference between viewing text and CAD work.

But I cannot do 5 minutes of CAD work using a white background without going blind.

There is some forum software that allows the users to choose their own colors/background/text style, etc.

That is the best of both worlds I think, since everyone can customize the view to their liking, but you really should not have to do that. The screen appearance should be pleasing to just about everyone who views it.

Having tinkered around with forum software, it is surprising how very small changes in highlights, colors and shading can produce dramatic visual changes.

As I understand it, the eye sees in contrast, and so things that do not produce a sharp contrast basically are difficult to distinguish. You can adjust the contrast setting on your screen and see what I am talking about, but colors and shades of colors are very critical too.

I have been trying to figure out how to custom blend paints for finish on steam engines, and so I purchases a color wheel. There is a lot to color, and some very subtle things.

I prefer not to use the primary colors for an engine or a website. To me they seem to bold.

Colors that get into the "tint/tone/shade" region seem much more refined to me than just stark primary colors.

There is much to getting the look and feel of a forum comfortable to view.

I wish everyone here the best of luck with or without changes.

.

It was quite a clever idiot who followed user requests!

Astronomers who want to read the site without completely destroying their night vision.

Backyardastro has a similar 'night vision theme' which is user selectable. SGL also allows users to change the theme.

But I suppose people would complain if given choices as they find it confusing...

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 12/02/2021 16:15:17

Further to my previous post, the main point is that it is important that a website follows the needs of its users. The much loathed black background is very much a user need for astronomy sites.

I have made it clear to the people working on this that when the change comes we need to keep the 'feel' of the website as familiar as possible.

Whatever criticisms there are of the modelflying website, the colours used are muted, the text is clear and well spaced and the layout reacts well to different screen sizes and orientations including phones and tablets. The editor is easy to use across all devices.

These are the two most important things, after all the main functions we want from the forum are:

1. Easy to read with a clean layout.
2. Easy to follow threads and keep track of what we have read.
3. Easy to make replies including easy quoting of other posts.
4. Easy to add images and links.
5. Good search facility.

I am 100% sure that once people have got past the initial unfamiliarity they will find the new software just as good as this software on issue 1 and vastly better on 2 -5.

For example, it keeps track of which postings you have read, so you can go direct to the first new posting rather than just going direct to the first or last page of a thread. Images can be directly pasted into your posts (copy and paste) or entered as links to other websites. The editor is also far more stable and consistent across different types of computer.

Neil

Why? ... No one, it seems, ever told Microsoft about their three tiny boxes up in the top right hand corner.

Did I miss something here? I had thought that this thread was just a a likes/dislikes thread about the current forum software .... essentially a continual topic around here.

Now it seems to have morphed into a discussion about the "new forum software" coming down the pipe. When did that get announced?