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Ray Spreadbury	27/11/2009 10:56:08
11 forum posts	I have recently got a Myford Super 7 & I have ordered a small mill (from Warco). I'm not sure what tools to buy at the same time but I'm currently also attending an adult education weekly course at the local college - Engineering Workshop Practice which is great. Anyway I am considering getting the following for use in/on the mill:- - a set of ER25 collet & chuck set - a set of end mills - a set of slot mills - a milling vice - a clamping kit - an angle plate - a set of parallels - a boring head & boring bars - slitting saw arbor & 2 or 3 slitting saws - a tap & die set (metric) - some drills including drills for the taps above - a wobbler set Have I forgotten anything, is it overkill? I was thinking of getting most of these bits from Chronos or Warko but is there any advice please? Cheers Ray
Ian S C	27/11/2009 11:18:29
7468 forum posts 230 photos	Here in NZ I would expect to get a milling vice and a clamping kit with the mill.As for taps,end mills and slot drills buy them as you need them,no use having stuff you don't need.Parallels,I use inner and outer race from ball races.Made my own angle plate,fly cutters,saw arbours,exta collets for the collet chuck.Get a set of drills,also tapping size if they are not in the set you get.You may find imperial drills handy if you pick some up at car boot sale or similar,the thing is to keep ones eyes open,you'll be suprised what and where you find things.IAN S C
David Clark 1	27/11/2009 11:41:13
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There Looks reasonably balanced. I would buy the Tee nuts, nuts and washers and clamps from J&L. The cheap sets leave a lot to be desired. Then use standard lengths of mild steel studding. Don't forget Arc Euro Trade, good quality and good prices. regards David
chris stephens	27/11/2009 12:12:38
1049 forum posts 1 photos	Hi David, While I agree that J&L are on the whole good suppliers of kit, they do seem to sell the same oriental tat, in their value range, as some of the others, but at a higher price. In a catalogue you just can't tell how good or bad something is, and price alone is no longer a good guide. J&L do sell good stuff but at a cost, but then as the old saying goes "the quality is remembered long after the price is forgot" but Oh, what a cost! chriStephens
Circlip	27/11/2009 12:29:34
1723 forum posts	Expecting WW3 Ray?? If you're going to a training establishment I can see quite a few bits on your list that you could make. You would also gain both machining experience and a sense of acheivement?? Regards Ian.
Ray Spreadbury	27/11/2009 13:07:50
11 forum posts	Posted by Circlip on 27/11/2009 12:29:34: Expecting WW3 Ray?? If you're going to a training establishment I can see quite a few bits on your list that you could make. You would also gain both machining experience and a sense of acheivement?? Regards Ian. Hi Ian Firstly thanks to all who have replied. I think the idea of old ball races for parallels is a great idea and I will go that route initially then maybe see if I can machine/grind some at the college. Re the Angle plates I have looked at buying castings and machining them but as far as I can see it works out more expensive, so does anyone know of a supplier of cheap angle plate castings? Clamp sets, yes I can collect/make my own. Who are J&L by the way? Re WW3 Ian, no it's not imminent and that's why I asked if what I was considering was "overkill" but I think you're right, I'll just buy in dribs & drabs ie. what I need for each project I start. The thing is I'm going to the Sandown Exhibition and I wanted to identify any things which I need and which may(?) be on special offer there. Cheers Ray
JasonB	27/11/2009 13:11:30
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	I'd add a dial test indicator and magnetic stand. You will need that to set the vice true to the table and also to set up work that is clamped to it. I've not had a problem with the clamping sets, if you are loading them to such an extent that they fail you will be risking your mill table. I' opt for an electronic edge finder rather than wobbler, the one greenwood tools do will fit a 1/2" chuck or collet You will also want a drill chuck as its easier when using the machine for drilling. Jason
Circlip	27/11/2009 13:30:44
1723 forum posts	If you look around for some "Bits" of Roofing girders (Industrial) with a bit of lateral thinking AND cutting the basis of angle plates spring out. Heavy wall thickness black steel angles also make smaller angle plates after a bit of machining and grinding. Strange how some see a steam engine in blocks of Brass, Gunmetal and Aluminininium, but have a temporary blindness when it comes down to basic tooling?? Must be the grazed knees and blowin yerself up with bangers era that nurtured this. Regards Ian
Versaboss	27/11/2009 13:53:57
512 forum posts 77 photos	let me add my 2cts here. - Parallels: while ball race rings are ok for using on the table, I think in a vice you need (a few) pairs of rectangular bars, of different heights (less than the vice's jaws) and 2 - 6 mm thick. In most cases even mild steel pieces are good enough (measure them!) - Boring head: beware of the ubiquitous '2" Boring Head' with Morse 2 shank. The one I bought some years ago is totally unusable. Make the G. Thomas head, it's a 100 times better! Good luck, Hansrudolf (the Versaboss)
Geoff Theasby	27/11/2009 15:48:26
615 forum posts 21 photos	Circlip, I agree about the angle iron. I cut some short lengths of this, and ground them flat and square with a cup wheel from a local supplier. I drill holes where needed, then discard them when they get too lace-like. I am also getting fed up with the milling attachment on my Unimat 3, in that the motor keeps fouling the clamp studding. I have to get quite ingenious in the placing of items being milled, either that or cut down the studding. Regards Geoff
Peter Gain	27/11/2009 16:41:45
103 forum posts	Purchase Harold Hall's "Milling, A Complete Course", Workshop Practice No. 35. There-in is much useful information & advice on making simple milling aids. The making of these will provide a basic knowledge of the mill & it's use & prove to be a good foundation. As to turning tools, you have purchased a Myford, why spoil it's potential by purchasing Far Eastern tooling? Always ask the supplier of items such as drills, tool steel, milling cutters etc. for the country of origin. Far Eastern mills (& presumably lathes) can be worked on to make them surprisingly accurate but their idea of cutting edges is dire. Peter Gain.
chris stephens	27/11/2009 16:42:01
1049 forum posts 1 photos	Hi Jason B I like electronic edge finders and have had three of them. The first one I bought from a clock fair in a not working condition, so I made new internals, this is the one mentioned in the article on making one. I lost this one from my pocket whilst riding my bike. Number two needed new batteries, and whilst trying to get the old ones out, the internals fell on the floor never to be seen again, ever. Number three came from Warco and was one of their light and sound ones, got it home and it did not work. So back it went and the replacement did not work either, then I found that the diagram showing the battery fitment was wrong, put the batteries in back to front and it worked. Yes, I did phone Warco so they could check out the problem. I keep some SPI audible wobblers as back-ups, as they have no electronic the fail. Hi Cirlip, One of us must be mellowing, that's at least three times we have the same views. Keep up the good work, Lad. chriStephens
mgj	27/11/2009 18:22:04
1017 forum posts 14 photos	Well I feel much the same as circlip too. Once you have a vice , it only takes an ordinary bolt and a file to get it held down - at which point you can make tee bolt heads by the mile. A length of your chosen metric studding, some hexagon for coupling nuts, and some bars with holes drilled in them (later to have slots added) and you have a hold down kit for pennies. You need a decent setsquare - one that will go right across your milling table, for setting most things square. Angle plates - the other route is to buy the rough castings and machine them. Hermingway do them I think. Cutters depends on what size you are playing with. I do all my facing and profiling with 2 endmills. (You don't need a set of endmills) A 2" tipped cutter, or a 16mm tipped cutter. Slotting I use FC3 throwawys in a holder T built myself. They double as slot and end mills in hte small sizes A slitting saw arbor you make - buy a couple or 3 2MT soft blanks. the driving peg you add makes htem much more efficient. Parallels you make mostly, until you can afford a good set of your own. I must say I like steam edgefinders and wobblers. Even more since I got a DRO. I have a laser edge finder that is very quick and easy, but its not as accurate as an ordinary over centre edge finder. Boring head. In theory very nice. How often do you actually use one. I used one once on the lathe before I had a mill to do the cylingers of a Stuart Launch. It can be used for offestting tapers without moving the tailstock - good idea but I built a taper turning attachment.(not used much but a life saver when you do want one) I used it once to bore the smokebox of the TE, and for the remainder of the 20 years I have had it, its gathered dust. A boring head is one of those things that waits for a job that needs one.- unless you like a VERY EXPENSIVE flycutting head. You MUST have some sort of dividing gear. (Unless you have a DRO for your mill )If you have a Myford, you build a GHT VDH dividing head.Of course it can be done by stepping out with dividers, but to make a cylinder cover and cylinder with studs to match, without a DH is painful. Or any kind of slotting on shafts which have been turned and are left in a chuck, or to make your own boring bars etc etc. Start with the simple kit, and add the goodies later, but you will need as an essential, a dividing head, and a set of raising blocks with a built in aligning tenon if you are going to make a steam engine on a mill. Hemingway again, - but I think I got my castings from Reeves many years ago, so they may still do them.
Ray Spreadbury	27/11/2009 20:33:38
11 forum posts	OK Guys thanks for all your replies and I get the message! 1. As per "Milling A Complete Course No 35" (which I have) I will be making my own T nuts, clamps & parallel bars 2. I will also collect some old ball races as supplementary parallels and look out for some structural steel angles to make my own angle plates 3. I will only buy milling cutters as I need them (only 1 or 2 anyway) and they will be of quality European/N American manufacture 4. I will only get the odd taps & dies, again as I need them and be of best quality only 5. I will buy a dial indicator & stand, an engineers square, a set of drills and a Wobbler or two 6. From Hemingway I will buy a couple of G H Thomas kits next year eg. The Small Precision Boring Head & The Versalile Dividing Head As Circlip remarked above, this way I will save some money, gain some experience and get a sense of achievement. One question, any recomendations for UK suppliers of "quality" tapd, dies, drills etc? Thanks everybody Regards Ray
Peter Gain	27/11/2009 21:00:39
103 forum posts	For good quality taps etc. try Folkestone Engineering &/or Millhill Supplies. They both sell UK/EU/USA made products. Both are easily found on the web. Folkestone currently advertise in ME. I have found both to be reliable. Peter Gain.
mgj	27/11/2009 23:17:15
1017 forum posts 14 photos	Oh Ray - if you disembowel old ball races, they are useful as parallels, or just as mounts to allow you to drill or cut through a bit of work without savaging the milling table.
JasonB	28/11/2009 07:27:10
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Have a look at J&L for cutting tools, they do a large range of Dormer drills, taps, mills etc will also have a moore & wright tri-square (not set square) Their Hertel disposable milling cutters are also good value, especially iof you wait for a pro-mo, I just stocked up as they had 35% off. Its a bit hard to search the site but if you click the virtual catalogue thats easy to flick through, also worth ordering the paper catalogue which is about 2" thick. http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/cgi/insrhm And talking of ball race shells, there was an interesting bit in MEB, the guy used what looked about a 9" dia shell when tramming his mill, it allows a DTI to be revolved buy hand without it dipping into the tee slots Jason Edited By JasonB on 28/11/2009 07:29:30
Ian S C	28/11/2009 09:28:36
7468 forum posts 230 photos	Ray,my angle plate is a 6"(150mm)length of 3"(75mm)x 3/8"(10mm) angle iron,at each end I welded a piece of 1/2"(13mm) steel to brace the angle.I then machined it square.I'v never yet needed a boring head.I got a horizontal/vertical rotary table,The 6" one fitted my mill just right,got the dividing plates and tail stock.IAN S C psI'v got the outer race of a 6" bearing,handy for setting up the mill and drill press.
Circlip	28/11/2009 09:33:34
1723 forum posts	One of the problems most who are trying to equip a toyshop with tooling is not having a SERIOUS look at what you will actually USE. Many have asked the same question Ray so you're not unique and despite all the replies, at the end of the day YOU will make your own choice and sod everyone else. On an amusing note, on another forum, despite being advised NOT to buy a Rotary Table (Rotab - Americanism UGH) he did and after two YEARS used the thing for the first time on a project. Ever been told to buy a four jaw chuck in preference to a three jaw??? (Assuming you have to specify one or the other) Most of us have and realised later we SHOULD have listened. To help find a few projects to equip your shop and give you a head start on night/day school :- http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/index-e.html http://www.projectsinmetal.com/ http://mdmetric.com/techindex.htm http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/ The first link will see destructions for lots of things you may have thought you needed to BUY but given that wherever you are being trained will have machinery bigger the you are likely to have in your own workshop, plan HEAVY machining and grinding jobs to gain maximum usage. You will be able to shift BIG lumps of metal on their machinery without straining the machines. Regards Ian
Allen Paddock	28/11/2009 11:06:38
24 forum posts	I found those 4 websites very interesting,and has given me a few ideas thanks .

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