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Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!

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Mark P.	07/11/2010 13:58:13
634 forum posts 9 photos	Hi all,couldn't find a general discusion forum so I have posted here.Has anyone else noticed that the quality of most household and to a certain extent more toward the budget end tooling is diabolical,eg.you have to almost repair it before it will do what it is intended for.I have bought a wooden toilet seat (need a bit of warmth in winter) from a large DIY chain the fittings were brassed aluminium with "tapped" 6mm holes had to re-tap the holes before the studs would fit ok so it was cheap,but even so I shouldn't have to do this,I also bought a new shower hose,this it was said would fit all 1/2 fittings no it wouldn't,so it was out with the BSP taps and a file to make it work. A couple of 10 minuite jobs turned into a couple of hours! all the time I was asking myself why can't thing just fit/work properly first time.Am I turning into a grumpy old man? Regards Pailo.
dcosta	07/11/2010 14:34:24
496 forum posts 207 photos	No. You are not. What might explain the poor quality of some of these products is that in the traditional European establishments (those who yet have not failed ...) begin to appear products of Chinese origin from the worst Chinese factories. Once they are sold in unsuspecting stores (possibly in our own neighborhoods), we bought them without realizing their poor quality. And then ... Surprise! When, or if, I enter an Chinese establishment I already know what awaits me ... However, I must say that I believe there are some good products from China. Listen Read phonetically Dias Costa
Dinosaur Engineer	07/11/2010 14:46:31
147 forum posts 4 photos	Pailo, I too have this problem also . Bought some central heating radiators from one of the biggest DIY stores . The tapped holes were so far out of square that I couldn't make the connections to them . Had to exchange them 3 times before I got reasonably square tapped holes. Ended up having to take a BSP tap to the store and to check/inspect before finding radiators suitable for the task. Also bought "reconditioned exchange" car brake calipers that were re-manufactured by the largest French OEM manufacturer and found various problems with them ( mostly leaks) . The worrying thing about these calipers were that they were not pressure tested as the tapped holes for the flexible hose connections were so full of crap that brand new hoses couldn't be fitted. After checking 5 calipers ended up going to another supplier. Even had to reject 1st one from this supplier ! And so the list goes on . I think the basic reason for these poor quality goods is that the sellers do not accept any responsibilty for the quality and buy purely from a profit motive.Also the sellers have no technical knowledge or experience to judge / inspect ' fit for purpose' criteria.We urgently need toughened up consumer laws with penalties to stop this kind of thing. Most worrying is that most people seem to accept these problems and work round them instead of getting the problems resolved . Where will it all end ?
chris stephens	07/11/2010 14:48:08
1049 forum posts 1 photos	Quality can be produced in China, just like anywhere else in the world. The trouble is that dealers over here are willing to accept stock without a good quality control system in place because of the extra costs involved. Dare I say the dealers here, be they machinery or household goods, are more interested in profit than service. If we kept returning faulty rubbish to the dealers instead of repairing it our selves or even worse throwing it in the bin because we can't be bothered, the sellers might start to insist on better quality., but don't hold your breath while waiting. Do I sound like a grumpy old man? Good! chriStephens
Terryd	07/11/2010 17:05:51
1946 forum posts 179 photos	In The UK goods must be of a 'Merchantable Quality' and 'Fit for Purpose' under present legislation. Despite what they often claim it is the responsibility of the retailer to ensure this, not the manufacturer. Many smaller retailers especially do not ,surprisingly, understand these responsibilities. More people should understand their rights and insist that goods are 'fit for purpose'. If we accept poor quality goods, tools or (service) and fix problems ourselves then suppliers will concentrate only on profit rather than service and continue to sell goods which are below standard.. Be grumpy and complain. Terry
Richard Parsons	07/11/2010 17:10:27
645 forum posts 33 photos	Most of our problems are caused by that wicked little creature called the “Account Ant”. All these creatures can do is count as in 1,2,3,many and all they are interested in is ‘THE BOTTOM LINE’. They know the cost of everything and the value of NOTHING. I once had to find out why the cost of consumable had risen by about £150 per month after I had installed the new consumable stores computer system. The reason ‘Hacksaw blades’. The “Account Ant” had discovered that they could buy an oriental blade for a few pennies each. Of course they were made of ‘mallow’ one or two cuts into mild steel and the blade needed a visit to a dentist for some serious tooth-wrighting work. The “Account Ant” would not have it so we introduced a system where by new blades would only be issued if you brought the remains of the old bits back. After a month opr so the store keepers brought (on a sack barrow) an old 2” mortar bomb box full of the bits, and some 150 page report showing who was issued with blades, when etc. It was dumped in the chief “Account Ant’s” office. The result was mayhem and threats of the use of the rough end of pineapples etc. They resorted to the more expensive –non oriental- blades. For those who live in the UK there is always this! use it! It has teeth! Actually it can be quite fun to force the trader to seek an order in the Magistrates Court banning you from his premises for being a nuisance. A U.K chain shoe retailer tried this on me as a trouble maker etc . My defence was ‘Different colours’ could be the latest fashion – KO. ‘Different styles’ –perhaps- . ‘Different sizes’ well our feet are generally slightly different in size. But their Honours did their ‘collective nuts’ when I mentioned that the shoes were both left footed. The shoe store still would not admitm that they had made a goof and give me a refund. i offered to make some 'Stocks' so that the shop manager could be locked in them for a few days. Over here in Hungary there is very little in the way of ‘consumer protection’. I have noticed that branded goods are very inferior to the same/identicle goods in the U.K. why?
Tony Pratt 1	07/11/2010 17:20:08
2319 forum posts 13 photos	Thousands of jobs including mine have gone east and continue to do so [latest Twinings tea}! It is not about serving you the customer with a cheaper quality product it is about making a cheaper product full stop. Dear consumer you won't pay for quality British/American/German/French made item so you pay less for a pile of cr*p which doesn't work so therefore you are actually paying more than if you bought a decent item in the first place. Remember "Quality remains, long after the price is forgotton". If I sound bitter good, because I am, for myself, my country and all the youngsters who won't have the joy of making something with their hands. Tony
Axel	07/11/2010 19:09:49
126 forum posts 1 photos	One needs a degree in economics to fully understand the reasons for this. But what has happend is that its a way to keep us buying stuff. Someone in the USA invented this in the mid of last century. As long as the product is good enough to sell its all thats needed! I saw a film I think was called "Story of stuff" not long ago and this was discussed in there... Soon when the pyramid scheme falls and Wall street goes belly up, we can perhaps change it back to what it used to be! Obama is currently trying to flood India with useless Dollars tho..
ady	07/11/2010 19:19:15
612 forum posts 50 photos	The British used to make quite reliable stuff. I've got a Hoover vac from the 1990s, built in Scotland, and it's taken a huge amount of abuse, currently a very useful swarf picker upper. My mum had a great Hoover from the 1950s, and a singer sewing machine from the 1940s which were British made and still working fine when they got chucked out in the 1990s. Peepul want cheap trendy throwaway crap nowadays, so industry is geared up for that and hundreds of thousands of British manufacturing jobs no longer exist. We got what we voted for with the pounds in our pockets, we cut our own little throats. I've got a British Drummond lathe and a big Pultra lathe and there aint NOBODY getting them babies. Everyone who remembers WW2 will be dead over the next few decades, but my Drummond was there and it will still be cutting metal after the last WW2 Brit is dead and gone. I wonder how many of todays chinese lathes will still be cutting metal in 70-90 years.
NJH	07/11/2010 19:26:15
2314 forum posts 139 photos	Surely the only reason for manufacturers producing rubbish is that the customer is prepared to buy it. ? There is no profit in, or reason for, producing a product no one will buy. So, I'm afraid it is Joe Public's fault to some extent. In the rush to aquire "stuff" quality is overlooked, the cheapo supplier triumphs and drives the quality manufacturer out of business. Once out of business not so easy to start again Gloomy!! Norman
ady	07/11/2010 19:43:37
612 forum posts 50 photos	The indigenous British car industry suffered from over engineering, unreliability and for some reason, never updated itself.(Well apart from the "All new Austin Allegro") I nearly got a Dolomite in the 1980s, a lovely bit of machinery going for a song by then, but the amount of bits-n-bobs on it was absolutely incredible, I've never seen a car with so many parts on it's exploded drawings. Compared to this a Ford MK2 escort was a doddle to maintain, you could get the cylinder head off in 9 minutes and back on in 30 right outside your own front door and even the puny 1300 could sit at 95 all day on the motorway.(So I've been told) Unfortunately the Japanese kicked our butts on the pure reliability front, they made cars which morons could run and since most of us aint got much of a clue about cars they stole the market. I think it was the Datsun 120Y which was their first big breakthrough, the motorbike market was already dominated by japanese machines by 1980.
Tony Pratt 1	07/11/2010 19:51:28
2319 forum posts 13 photos	Two examples of how short sighted and thick people are. I did my apprenticship at Vauxhall Motors,Luton in the 70's and the same people who were making cars on the track would turn up for work in shiny brand new Japanese motors[this massive site is now a housing and shopping development] All the goverment vehicles seem to be made abroad, how short sighted is that! Surely a Jaguar is equal to the BMW's and Subaru's the coppers use? and yes I know they are now owned by the Indian's but still made in Britain! Tony
Steve Garnett	07/11/2010 20:11:11
837 forum posts 27 photos	Q. Why is everything you buy such rubbish? A. Because we live in a post-industrial country now. Q. Why are we a post-industrial country now? A. Because we all got paid too much (several reasons for that, but it's a bit of a political hot potato) and forced our employers to put prices up, which made them non-competitive. Q. So we made good products, and we weren't prepared to buy our own stuff? A. As Tony above has noted, yes. Q. So did we use all that wealth wisely and invest in Chinese companies? A. No, the Chinese wouldn't let us - they are communists, and this concept doesn't enter into it. Q. Did the Chinese try to invest in British manufacture and engineering? A. They make crap products that people, however mistakenly, bought. Why should they invest in expensive quality products that nobody could afford? You could continue with this for quite a while, couldn't you?
NJH	07/11/2010 20:25:31
2314 forum posts 139 photos	Well Ady I had three Austin " Aggro's - Mk1, Mk2 & Mk3 - not really from choice but due to a generous relative who used them lightly and sold them to me at a good price. On the whole they weren't too bad and served me well ( image was not important to me by then!) I do recall that I was able to change water pumps in less than 20 min. - owing to plenty of practice! The days of D-I-Y car maintenance are now over ( for me anyway). I recently opened the bonnet of my current car and noticed a breather pipe from the rocker cover was adrift - I couldn't even find how to remove the aircleaner to get at it! Norman Ps I did have a Triumph (Toledo) from new - I liked it but it rusted like fury. Edited By NJH on 07/11/2010 20:30:48
ady	07/11/2010 20:36:08
612 forum posts 50 photos	We've got a prawn company up here in Jockland where it made economic sense to send locally caught prawns to somewhere like vietnam where they were processed then shipped back halfway around the world to be sold as "locally caught" goods. it's a funny old world...well bonkers actually. found it.
John Olsen	07/11/2010 20:53:03
1294 forum posts 108 photos 1 articles	Well, having experienced both Japanese and British cars and bikes, I can tell you that the Japanese beat the British motor industry purely on quality. Out here the prices were comparable, over in the UK the Japanese were not actually cheap for a start...although if you compare the 1961 Honda 150 twin that I have in my basement with a British bike of the same size and date you will see that you did get a lot of extra for the money...four speed gearbox, overhead cam four stroke twin instead of a prewar two stroke single to a DKW design, decent electrics, including an electric starter.(The 150 was their commuting model, not the sports bike, which for that size range was the 125 twin.) The same is of course not true of the current situation, where the West is going into hock to buy cheap Chinese junk. There is good stuff made there, and the machinery is not bad if it comes through an importer who knows which suppliers to buy from. One thing to watch is that the same pattern of machine is made in more than one factory, so just because someone down the road has what looks like the same machine at a cheaper price does not mean that it is a better deal. But there is a lot of stuff being produced that is not worth the cost of shipping it to the rubbish tip. The only thing that will stop this is for people to become more discerning. As those above have said, don't put up with it, take it back. You don't have to put a retailer through the hoops many times for it to become not worth their while to stock crap stuff. As the hard times bite a bit people will become more willing to do this. It is after all an economic war that we are all fighting. There was a time once when japanese stuff was truly dreadful...that was mostly before WWII, and for a short time afterwards. they actually realised that they needed to raise their game and introduced policies to improve the quality of exports. The only thing that will make the Chinese do the same is when they realise that they are losing sales because of their reputation. regards John
Dave Jones 1	07/11/2010 20:55:01
85 forum posts 5 photos	In answer to the thread topic, people forget that "Buy cheap, buy twice" is in my experience generally speaking true! regards Dave
blowlamp	07/11/2010 21:07:44
1885 forum posts 111 photos	We live in a country, where for far too long, those in charge have patted each other on the back and rewarded themselves handsomely for services rendered. In their view, their efforts are "world class" and must be acknowledged as so by those around them. That is how, as a nation, we managed to produce the likes of the Vauxhall Viva, Morris Marina/Ital and the painfully inadequate Sinclair C5, so no wonder the workers at Luton chose the more up to date Japanese produced cars, as they obviously saw the shortcomings of their own products and elected to spend their money more wisely. If my memory serves me well, poor quality and high unreliability always seemed to be reported as the fault of the workers, but never the management for allowing such rubbish to be designed and built in the first place. Strange that I've never heard the explanation of how companies such as Nissan and Toyota can successfully make genuinely world class vehicles over here though. It continues to this day, with the financial institutions reminding us of how vital they are to the country, whilst warning us of the dangers of regulating them, as such action would cause a "brain drain", from which we could never recover. Just as a reminder, I think the "Bonus Season" starts for the Bankers, early in the new year, so do bear that in mind while you check your bank statements for how much interest you've earned. Martin.
Steve Garnett	07/11/2010 21:15:50
837 forum posts 27 photos	Posted by ady on 07/11/2010 20:36:08: We've got a prawn company up here in Jockland where it made economic sense to send locally caught prawns to somewhere like vietnam where they were processed then shipped back halfway around the world to be sold as "locally caught" goods. Along similar lines, the Australians ship a lot of their Bauxite to Iceland to be smelted. That's one heck of a trip, but apparently it's still cheaper than smelting it in Oz, simply because of the geothermal energy. When it comes to machine tools though, ultimately the Brits will have the last laugh, I think. I mean, when the Chinese eventually become a post-industrial country too, and all their old gits have to use their old machinery to build models, etc with, do you think that they're going to be particularly happy?
Terryd	07/11/2010 21:18:35
1946 forum posts 179 photos	Well actually, British products weren't that good. I always bought British cars until the late 1980s when I test drove a Honda Accord. I just couldn't believe the difference. It seemed to come from a different planet, it drove like a dream and had cruise control, aircon etc all for a reasonable price. And it lasted me for 8 years and was second hand when I bought it. At that time we were producing the Morris Ital with suspension from the 1940s. A friend insisted on British motorbikes in the 70s because you could rebuild the engine by the roadside with a couple of spanners and a screwdriver. But then again you had to, every few hundred miles. And don't mention oil leaks. I also remember having to change the rear subframes on Minis every few years because of the rot, and if they lasted more than 5 years you were lucky. At the same time (late 80s) I bought a set of Chinese screwdrivers from Wilko Hardware. I'm still using most of them, despite years of abuse they seem hardly worn. We just lost our way. Still rose tinted specs always make the past look good. Terry Edited By Terryd on 07/11/2010 21:20:51

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