Gary Wooding | 18/03/2023 11:43:24 |
1074 forum posts 290 photos | I suppose that a can of fizzy drink in the hold of an aircraft could explode as a result of the reduced air pressure during the flight, but has it actually happened, or is it just a theoretical possibility? |
Dave Halford | 18/03/2023 11:57:05 |
2536 forum posts 24 photos | A plastic 2L pop bottle will hold 100psi. At 30,000 ft the pressure is about 4psi I once brought a giant pack of Lays crisps back from the USA in hand luggage and it blew up into a very tight large balloon. |
Robert Atkinson 2 | 18/03/2023 12:15:36 |
![]() 1891 forum posts 37 photos | The difference in pressure between seal evel and 40,000 feet is about 12 PSI so within the tolerance of the can design. In the cabin or hold of a passenger aircraft it's only about 3-4 PSI so insignificent compared to the typical 30-50 PSI canning pressure. I have seen a can of coke bulged impressively after being ing the cargo bay of a general aviation aircraft but that was because it froze. Even then it didn't burst. Robert. |
Martin Johnson 1 | 18/03/2023 12:40:54 |
320 forum posts 1 photos | Conversely, I saw somebody overturn a trolley load of fizzy drinks cans onto the tarmac outside a supermarket. A whole load of them burst, which was a most impressive, but short lived fountain. Coclusion - the design safety margin is pretty small. Martin |
peak4 | 18/03/2023 12:54:20 |
![]() 2207 forum posts 210 photos | I did have a can of fizzy pop dish out the ends one very hot summer's day in the Landrover, where it was sitting above the hot transmission tunnel; it retained the contents, but looked more like a model compressed air receiver. |
SillyOldDuffer | 18/03/2023 14:17:16 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Explode, very unlikely. Might go pop and gush if the can was both hot and high in the air, which is an unlikely combination. This website gives numbers for various soft drinks. Coca Cola containing 3.7 volumes of CO₂ quotes the highest pressure, 380kPa at 75°F (24°C), about 55psi. And this paper says: 'Where carbonated drinks are being packed – soft drinks or beer for example - the pack acts as a pressure vessel to contain the internal pressure generated by the carbon dioxide. So cans for carbonated drinks are typically designed to withstand internal pressures of 90 psi or more and the light weight and thin-bodied metal can is well able to meet such a demanding specification. I'd expect a drinks can to have a safety factor of 2 so one might burst at 180psi or so. Putting the can in a perfect vacuum only increases the effective internal pressure by 14.7psi, and 70psi is less than the '90psi or more' design pressure. When it comes to explosions, pressure is only part of the story. An proper explosion requires lots of energy as well; a high pressure pulse driven by a large amount of energy within a very short time. Supersonic. Consider bursting a model locomotive boiler:
Drink cans barely qualify as explosive. Unless you know different!!! Dave
|
Dave Halford | 18/03/2023 15:17:58 |
2536 forum posts 24 photos | As a can of pop has now been escalated to a boiler. I wonder if anyone has lit a fire under a sealed, water filled and written off boiler with a remote pressure gauge just to see at what pressure and just how a bad one would let go. |
Zan | 18/03/2023 15:33:35 |
356 forum posts 25 photos | There was an article in me or Eim a while back where from (distant memory) a 2” dia 1/16 copper tube had flat plates sil soldered on. It was put in a pit and remotely pumped up. I think it got to over 2000 psi before the joint failed. Our boilers are a lot stronger than we believe, but …….. |
Roderick Jenkins | 18/03/2023 15:36:17 |
![]() 2376 forum posts 800 photos | Posted by Dave Halford on 18/03/2023 15:17:58:
As a can of pop has now been escalated to a boiler. I wonder if anyone has lit a fire under a sealed, water filled and written off boiler with a remote pressure gauge just to see at what pressure and just how a bad one would let go. I think it was the Reading Society of Model Engineers who did just that. The result was unspectacular. Sadly, I cant find a link to it. Rod
|
Grindstone Cowboy | 18/03/2023 19:58:52 |
1160 forum posts 73 photos | The Mythbusters TV program have done a number of features with water heaters - the resulting explosions WERE spectacular, the average American water heater being far larger than a model loco boiler. Rob |
Robert Atkinson 2 | 18/03/2023 21:09:45 |
![]() 1891 forum posts 37 photos | As a teenager I had some fun exploding plastic bottles using a fridge compressor. Large 2l PET bottles made an impressive bang. More interesting, and suprising, were the then current white Fairy Liquid washing up detergent bottles. These, much loved by Blue Peter, were made from PVC. They expanded gently at first, like a balloon, as the polymer chains aligned and streached. The then held to about 200PSI before bursting. A nasty BELVE, which has killed more than once, is a liquified gas can in a bonfire. |
Justin Thyme | 18/03/2023 23:25:51 |
72 forum posts | I was curious to see just how strong these bottles were, so I parked my van on top of one I was impressed |
Hopper | 19/03/2023 00:52:43 |
![]() 7881 forum posts 397 photos | Posted by Dave Halford on 18/03/2023 15:17:58:
As a can of pop has now been escalated to a boiler. I wonder if anyone has lit a fire under a sealed, water filled and written off boiler with a remote pressure gauge just to see at what pressure and just how a bad one would let go. There was such an explosion of a brand new boiler in Tasmania in the 1970s. Newly installed steam boiler in the laundry of a convent was hydostatically tested late in the day and the gags left on the safety valves, pressure gauge and high pressure cut out switch. Next day it was fired up by someone who did not know this, and left to come up to pressure. It exploded killing 8 people and injuring dozens, wiping the laundry off the face of the Earth. Estimated pressure at explosion was 600 to 800 psi. Story here LINK |
Hopper | 19/03/2023 01:28:47 |
![]() 7881 forum posts 397 photos | PS ISTR the design factor is usually four times the working pressure. So that would be 600psi on a 150psi boiler. From distant memory, inititial hydrostatic test was twice working pressure. Thence at 1.5 times working pressure at annual inspections. |
Gary Wooding | 19/03/2023 10:23:21 |
1074 forum posts 290 photos | Thanks for all the interest - I was really only interested in a Coke can type container. |
Hopper | 19/03/2023 10:55:03 |
![]() 7881 forum posts 397 photos | Posted by Gary Wooding on 19/03/2023 10:23:21:
Thanks for all the interest - I was really only interested in a Coke can type container. You would have to think the change in pressure differential would be greater with a can left out in the summer sun where pressure inside the can could reach what? 50 psi? 80psi? Maybe even 100psi, when you judge by the spray that comes out of a hot can when opening. The 12psi difference in atmospheric pressure between sea level and 30,000 feet pales into insignificance by comparison. Still, I don't think I would risk packing one in my suitcase on a long haul flight. Just in case! |
SillyOldDuffer | 19/03/2023 15:09:23 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Posted by Hopper on 19/03/2023 00:52:43:
Posted by Dave Halford on 18/03/2023 15:17:58:
As a can of pop has now been escalated to a boiler. I wonder if anyone has lit a fire under a sealed, water filled and written off boiler with a remote pressure gauge just to see at what pressure and just how a bad one would let go. There was such an explosion of a brand new boiler in Tasmania in the 1970s. Newly installed steam boiler in the laundry of a convent was hydostatically tested late in the day and the gags left on the safety valves, pressure gauge and high pressure cut out switch. Next day it was fired up by someone who did not know this, and left to come up to pressure. It exploded killing 8 people and injuring dozens, wiping the laundry off the face of the Earth. Estimated pressure at explosion was 600 to 800 psi. Story here LINK The Newspaper report is more damning than 'Next day it was fired up by someone who did not know...' It starts: A Hobart engineering firm went ahead with steam tests on a new boiler contrary to a direction by an inspector of the Department of Labour and Industry, an inquest into a boiler explosion at Mount St Candice convent, Sandy Bay,
was told today.
Things were so much better before all this modern health and safety nonsense. Good job that after 50 wasted years our practical men are questioning 'what do experts know?' I'm being sarcastic. In Tasmania eight people died and 24 were injured... Good programme on telly about the Herald of Free Enterprise last night. 193 avoidable fatalities in 1987. A high-risk arrangement that included the Captain sailing on the assumption that the bow doors were closed unless someone told him they were open. A bunch of professionals convinced they were doing a proper job, who failed to ask themselves 'what could possibly go wrong'. Sloppy. Dave
|
Neil Wyatt | 20/03/2023 17:22:10 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | I think that strictly speaking, a BLEVE is where you rapidly vaporise a flammable liquid and then ignite the vapour cloud. They are a particularly nasty form of ordnance. Neil |
SillyOldDuffer | 20/03/2023 17:37:04 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Posted by Neil Wyatt on 20/03/2023 17:22:10:
I think that strictly speaking, a BLEVE is where you rapidly vaporise a flammable liquid and then ignite the vapour cloud. They are a particularly nasty form of ordnance. Neil Not according to Wikipedia, M'lud. Dave |
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