Fancy a job looking after Steam Engines?

Don't know if this is allowed, but thought it may be of interest to some members. Lancashire County Council have posted the following job advert:

Job opportunities at Queen Street Mill in Burnley.
We are currently looking for a new technical team at the Queen Street Mill to help us preserve this historic working cotton mill.
Do you have working knowledge and passion for steam power or weaving?
The confidence and skills to operate Peace, our unique boiler, engine or a loom and communicate their story to our visitors?
Then apply now! Closing date Friday 24 February.

Engine technician part-time
Boiler technician part-time
Weaving technician full-time

Lancashire Museums are also holding a drop-in event for anyone interested in these roles on Wednesday 15 February: https://www.facebook.com/events/1240083806590576

Edit - the embedded links did not work corectly

Working links:

https://fa-esms-saasfaukgovprod1.fa.ocs.oraclecloud.com/hcmUI/CandidateExperience/en/sites/CX_1/job/1069/?utm_medium=jobshare

https://fa-esms-saasfaukgovprod1.fa.ocs.oraclecloud.com/hcmUI/CandidateExperience/en/sites/CX_1/job/1070/?utm_medium=jobshare

https://fa-esms-saasfaukgovprod1.fa.ocs.oraclecloud.com/hcmUI/CandidateExperience/en/sites/CX_1/job/1068/?utm_medium=jobshare

Edited By Grindstone Cowboy on 03/02/2023 23:10:52

Edited By Grindstone Cowboy on 03/02/2023 23:13:25

Surprised to see in the "person specification" that neither the boiler man nor engine driver is required to have a boiler operator's license or engine driver's ticket. Surely that can't be right, even on old heritage stuff? (Or especially on old heritage stuff that is more likely to give trouble than a modern installation.)

If not, could be a good step up for a model engineer experienced at running small steam engines.

Do you need an "engine drivers license" to run a static engine ? Maybe a CPC of some kind after training.

regards

Given the very small number of people who would have the necessary, skill, experience and willingness to do the job, I think that they are wise to concentrate on finding someone first and then consider what 'tickets' might be needed.

John

My first question would be why did the old team walk out the door

Look at the salary. For someone with a boiler ticket or engine drivers ticket it is a part time job paying two thirds of that stated salary, which I think was about 20K quid full time. And not really a retirement job for an old timer, shovelling coal into a boiler. And any younger bloke with those licences can make a lot more money than that in industry, power stations, on the rigs etc.

Edited By Hopper on 04/02/2023 11:13:18

It's not easy to get a boiler or engine driver's licence. It requires quite a bit of study and passing the government examination. Then you have to have a fairly lengthy period of on-the-job training under supervision of a fully licensed operator. Not sure how long that is these days, but would be at least 3 months on the boilers and possibly a year on the engine. That's why I was mystified to see no mention of needing these licenses to start with.Unless they have a senior engineer on site overseeing them and they have the necessary licenses, but the ad reads like the engine driver is the senior operator in that role.

Edited By Hopper on 04/02/2023 11:15:09

Edited By Hopper on 04/02/2023 11:28:45

I'm not sure what this 'engine driver's licence' is. In the UK at least heritage railways have schemes for training and assessing the competence of loco drivers, but this isn't a loco. As far as I am aware there is no national scheme, and the local schemes don't require any study apart from the railway's operating rules. No doubt the council will have some similar scheme in place. Similarly loco firemen, who are from day to day in charge of the boiler, have local schemes, but there is periodic inspection of the boiler by the insurance company.

Hopper

This is an old weaving mill. I have not been for a few years but it is a stationary mill engine.

I think it was run by mostly volunteers and the engine was only in operation on certain days.

Stuart

The only UK road steam engine licence is if you want to drive a steam roller. Drive meaning look after the boiler as that the bit that blows up, so somewhat cart before the horse for stationary engines?

It's a bit different from driving locos or traction engines. To operate a large stationary steam boiler like the one at the mill you need to have a boiler operator's license, which requires in the UK under the BOAS scheme at least 6 months supervised experience running a boiler plus a training course plus passing the test. Steam boilers that size are extremely dangerous pieces of equipment with the potential to flatten an area the size of a city block if they explode. The WHS authorities and the insurance companies don't let any old untrained numpty run them.

In the past, to "drive" a stationary steam engine like the mill engine in question, you had to have what was termed an Engine Driver's License. Not sure what the status on those old piston engines is today. Today's licences are aimed at steam turbines and don't mention old piston engines.

I was just surprised the the job ad person specification made no mention of the boiler license requirement, which would seem to me to be the first prerequisite, having worked for some years running large boilers and steam plant. It is usually a very highly regulated workplace.

I certainly never would set foot in such mill if I knew the boiler operator was not trained. tested and licensed. Disaster waiting to happen.

Edited By Hopper on 04/02/2023 23:52:31

As an aside , they produce ( or at least did ) some very good quality cloth , particularly Calico , which for me added to a very enjoyable visit and justified the long journey. Wish the management the very best of luck in securing suitable personnel to keep the place running and to continue educating the school children .

BOAS qualification is not a legal requirement, acknowledged on the CEA website and both qualifications (operator and manager) can be gained on a 4 - 5 day course for each, renewable every five years. Undertaking this training and gaining the qualification Is obviously a good idea in demonstrating competence and it is recognised by HSE. However there are other ways of demonstrating competence as competence under the PSSR is defined as “qualification or experience”. There is no national “licence” issued in the UK under statutory legislation that I am aware of.

The national driving standard assessed and awarded by DVLA for “steam” rollers is actually for ROAD rollers and contains no element of boiler management, so you can take the test on a diesel roller and be qualified to drive steam on the road! Similarly the ordinary vehicle licence within the various weight limits entitles anyone to drive a traction engine (any road engine or lorry without rolls). Anomaly of the system perhaps but as boiler safety is well covered in other areas it seems to work. The NTET has a recognised driver training course that again is a good idea to undertake as again this demonstrates a certain level of competence but again it is not legally mandated.

I didn’t read the job advert but would expect it should have contained as an essential requirement “demonstrable experience / competence in boiler / engine management for the Council to cover it’s posterior! As others have said £20k is not going to buy much of that.

Paul.

Paul, that would explain it then. Things sound a lot more laissez-faire than they once were, and still are in Oz and the USofA. I think boilerman has almost become a job of the past with a lot of modern automatic controls making boilers almost an unmanned operation these days.

Interesting that with all the strict rules on tiny model steam boiler constructions and inspections and approvals we hear of, that the operating side of full-sized extremely dangerous boilers is so relatively lax.

Wouldn't be a bad job running the engine, as a sort of retirement hobby job. Part time for 9 months a year. But yes only paying pocket money for someone with the qualifications and experience to actually do it. I definitely wouldn't fancy the coal shovelling position though!

Edited By Hopper on 05/02/2023 04:16:19

My Early driving licenses ( 1950 ish ) included Heavy and Light Road Locomotives. along with Heavy Tractor, Heavy Motor Car and Motor Car. All in class A

I believe that the mill engine in question has not been used for some time due to the state of the chimney

Roy

Would they fire it up every day taking into account the huge cost of coal etc ? Some museums have special steam days and alternatively use an electric motor to run old countershafts etc

Yes it sounds like that may be the case. Their website LINK says that starting March 29 the museum will open from noon to 4pm Wednesday through Saturday but says the boilers and engine can be seen in action on special steaming days, but the link to special steaming days has nothing listed yet. So definitely not every day but maybe one day a month or fortnight or whatever. Not so much coal shovelling after all, then. I suppose there would be plenty of maintenance to do in the meantime.