Aircraft General Discussion

Never mind training. Air navigation in WW2 was a chancy business, at least before centimetric radar and advanced radio navigational systems came in later on.

The Luftwaffe were 200 miles off course when they bombed Dublin by mistake during a raid on Swansea. This happened more than once after disoriented pilots mistook St Georges Sea for the Bristol Channel. Analysis of British target photography in 1941 showed that only about 3% of bombs were dropped within 5 miles of the intended target. The US military were very confident that their first class training, advanced aircraft and the Norden Bomb Sight would let them accurately hit specific targets. Unfortunately European weather isn't as cooperative as that in the US, wartime conditions made navigation much harder than expected, and any cloud destroyed the Norden's accuracy. Their actual performance wasn't any better than other air-forces.

I'd guess being shot at wouldn't help either! You can only admire their courage even if most of the bombs landed on civilians.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 09/04/2017 13:23:40

Just watched an aircraft being put through its paces. Everything from high speed dives and rolls to engine throttled back, flaps and undercarriage down. The downer is that I've miserably failed to identify the type.

The wing was tapered with rounded tips but not elliptical, so not a Spitfire. The rudder was rounded, so definitely not a Mustang, and it didn't have the characteristic whine of a Mustang at high speed. The engine was loud and throaty, and banged and farted like there was no tomorrow when throttled back. As far as I could see through binoculars it wasn't a radial engine. It looked just like a Hawker Typhoon, but I didn't think any of those were airworthy?

Andrew

Andrew, the Typhoon had a large 'chin' below the engine. Could your a/c have been a Me 109?

Geoff

Which I thought I could see, and is what made me think of the Typhoon. I also got the impression that the undercarriage was wide track, like a Hurricane rather than narrow like the Spitfire. I'm not familiar with the noise a Me109 makes but this engine was loud and raucous. During the first descent with throttle closed the aircraft must have been 2000+ feet and several miles away but the engine could clearly be heard banging and clattering, pressumably as unburnt fuel ignited in the exhaust. The mystery deepens.

Andrew

There are 28 Curtis Warhawks still flying and more on the way.

Neil

Long time since I was on this Forum, and I'm well out of touch with the aviation resto theme in UK too.

But could it have been a Hawker Sea Fury (there USED to be one at RNAS Yeovilton). I appreciate the comment about the "chin" rad/intake, but from certain angles the "big round" engine of the Sea Fury (Bristol Centaurus I think) COULD look a bit like a chin. The bit about a semi-eliiptical wing and the "banging and spluttering" (presumably on throttle closure) certainlyboth fit as I remember seeing and hearing a Sea Fury (and other Hercules and Centaurus-powered aeroplanes) a L O N G time ago now.

AES

"banging and spluttering" was much more associated with a throttled-back merlin than the Herc and Centaurus. Having flown the Valetta (Hercs) and Beverley (Centaurus) we would never have been aurally mistaken for a Merlin. Sleeve valves are so much less obtrusive!

rgds

Bill

A restored 109 would most likely be fitted with a Merlin, as there are no DB601 engines around these days.

Geoff

Andrew,

Yesterday afternoon my wife and I had just got home around 14:00 when I heard what sounded like a Harvard, a quick look towards Old Warden and I spotted what you had seen with a chase plane which by its position, starboard and to the rear, was taking photographs. where they went I don't know as they didn't appear to return to Old Warden. I thought it had a radial from what I could see.

Martin P

I'd be disappointed at my recognition skills if the aircraft was indeed a Sea Fury. It seems there is an airworthy Sea Fury at Duxford, alhough I don't recall seeing it when I visited in January. I believe that the RNHF has at least one airworthy Sea Fury; although I don't think the Sea Fury that suffered a catastrophic engine failure a few years ago has been rebuilt yet.

The last I saw of the aircraft it was heading SE towards Duxford, so I'm not sure if it subsequently visited Old Warden?

I think our esteemed editor has hit the nail on the head. Looking at the drawings of the Curtis Warhawk a lot of the features I saw tally. And there are two airworthy examples at Duxford.

Andrew

Andrew, my guess's HA-1112 Buchon-Spanish ME-109 with a RR Merlin. A Russian Yak-3, this would have a Allison engine ex a P-40 Kittyhawk, or it could be a Kittyhawk. Or what about a Hurricane, easy to spot, no dihedral to speak of. It won't be a Typhoon, or a Sabre engined Tempest, nobody is about to rebuild a Napier Sabre to airworthy condition. Ian S C

Oh yes they are !! Hawker Typhoon RB 396 Restoration by the Hawker Typhoon Preservation Group (HTPG)

John Feeney

I don't suppose that's anymore unlikely than a fully restored Mosquito, I think there are two more on the way, and the first prototype has been bought up to flying standard in Canada (2 in USA), But the engines for the Tiffy are about as common as hens teeth.

There is a Tempest V (Centarus V engine in a resoration shop in NZ) cost of rebuild around $NZ3 million dollars, a bit less than 1.5 million pounds, the aircraft is for sale, unless it all ready has been sold.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 30/04/2017 15:16:33

This Focke Wulf 190 came for a low level run along the Murray River and over the Hume dam on the weekend. **LINK**

I was busy catching rainbow trout so did not have my camera handy. It's quite a noisy aircraft. I must slip out to the local airport one day and try for some photos.

* Danny M *

For all those in the Cambridge area.

**LINK**

regards Martin

I knew that, I was addressing my comments to the multitude who have just moved into Cambridgeshire. Also that's where I live so I suppose I was being a little ideocentric too.

regards Martin

My wife and I had the weekend away at my companies twentieth year in business party and it allowed us to get to know our recently acquired new to us car, part of the Sunday drive for us was to Grafham water where I spotted a Spitfire but not just any Spitfire this one was the two seater circling the lake several times, I've seen many pictures but never for real.

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 07/05/2017 21:05:41

Martin, it could have been Caroline Grace's Mk IX, based at Sywell, not too far away. I was lucky enough to see this plane there last month, as I was up there to partake in 90 minutes of Boeing 737 simulator use, bought for me by my colleagues as a retirement present. Three lucky persons were taken up in the Spit during my time at the field, and there is a new hangar just been completed, with another close to being finished, where the Spits are kept. I think there are two kept at Sywell, so far.

The new hangar is called the 'Spitfire Blister' and there appears to be up to three two seaters based at Sywell. The Grace Spit, and two from Aerolegends that split between Sywell and Headcorn. A flight in one will only cost from £2500.00 a go!