Lathe chuck guards - how many folk use them?

The flaw is relying on 'my particular circumstances'! Human beings are easily distracted, are often tired, unwell, frustrated, irritable, drunk, or harassed. You're expecting an important phone call and return to the machine after a criminal has tried to tell you he's Microsoft, or the Inland Revenue, or your Bank's fraud unit.

Overconfidence is a poor substitute for calculated risk taking. Everyone makes mistakes and has been a bloody fool at least once.

The most unreliable tool in my workshop is me!

Dave

When I was a lad, in rural Sussex the factory inspector was a lady and the staff always seemed to know when a visit was due ,so there was a warning find the drilling machine guard and fit it ,none of the lathes had chuckguards,they were probably unheard of in those days, the horizontal mill always had it guards fitted,when the inspector left the drill guards went back on the shelf.

Whatever you want to do in your own workshop and whatever you think of Health and Safety you cannot refute the fact that workplace injuries and deaths have reduced considerably over time. See Charts 5 to 7

**LINK**

regards Martin

Agreed Martin, both as a result of safer measures being put in place, a more aware approach as what is safe and what is not and a more realistic approach from employers and employees alike. It is a shame that some people do not display a sense of common sense or have a too zealous approach at times which often has the opposite effect and puts people off, discouraging rather than encouraging. You have to take the employees with you!

What is interesting is seeing how other countries approach the H&S issues that raise so much concern here. For example, to return to this thread's OP - go onto YouTube and watch our American cousins on a lathe, guards there are not, or none that I have seen! Same for mills, unless of course they are CNC machines.

You would have thought that being in the EU we would have had a unified approach to H&S across the EU, but oh no. In the 1990's on factory visit we commented on an operator smoking in a paint spray booth in France, yes, really!, and in a factory in Holland, a 12" or so diameter circular saw with half the blade above the table, completely unguarded and the floor area surrounding the saw covered with short lengths of about 1" diameter tube, a tripping/slipping horrific accident waiting to happen. Our Dutch guide was quite surprised and complexed when we queried the safeness of this situation, like 'but what is wrong?' and was amazed when we said that in England the Factory Inspector on seeing that would have probably put a prohibition order on them! Earlier in the 1980's , looking at a bottling machine operating in NI without any guarding at all, we asked why did they not have any guarding. As only the Irish could respond, they said oh yes we have all the guards, they're in the store, we don't bother with them - as indeed the unguarded machine always had been operated from new, it having never been designed to be guarded in the first place as it was originally considered to be unnecessary when first designed.

Sorry, this has taken the OP a little off track!

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 13/11/2019 17:32:26

Martin,

Interesting reading but it relates to industrial injuries, I would assume most of us me included are either semi or fully retired, apart from household management who would we report our injuries to, I conjecture when asked by a doctor/nurse we would tell a little white lie to hide our embarrassment/stupidity

Martin P

What would be interesting, to me at least, would be peoples designs for chuck and milling guards that are effective and usable.

I believe that guards are removed because they prevent the effective operation and setting up of the machine.

Dave J

Guards do get in the way - the price of having them is they often slow things down. It's all a matter of balance though. What's the benefit of keeping a machine well fed compared with the cost of an accident?

In the UK the taxpayer mostly picks up the cost of injuries via Social Security and the NHS. Explains why the Nanny State is so keen to reduce accidents! From their point of view the world is full of clowns determined to hurt themselves!

Although it's impossible to make any process completely safe, surely it's worth minimising the risks?

On my lathe:

• Taken the tool-post guard off - it gets in the way a lot for very little benefit. Risk low, benefit of removing high.
• Kept the chuck guard on - makes sure the motor is off before the chuck can be adjusted, stops things falling in, and catches flying coolant and swarf. Risk of removing moderate, benefit low.
• Kept the leadscrew guards on, even though they reduce saddle movement. Not because I'm worried about getting caught in the leadscrew, but mainly because they keep it clean Others may find removing them useful. Risk of removing low, benefit of keeping moderate.
• Kept the change-gear guard interlock. Stops the gears powering up whilst fingers and loose clothing are anywhere near them. Risk of high impact accidents. Benefit of removing would be saving time adjusting the change gears 'just-so'. In my case the exposed gears are next to a walk way, it would be less dangerous to disable if the headstock was against a wall. But I'd still think twice about doing it!
• Interlocks would be repaired rather than bypassed if they went wrong
• Took the trouble to fire an airgun at my Chinese screens to prove they are polycarbonate rather than cheap and nasty. The pellet bounced off, no damage to the screen.
• Don't have long hair, or wear a tie, gloves other than latex, rings or loose clothing. Steel toe-capped boots, and eye shields. And even though I'm a messy toad, I keep the floor clear of trip hazards. The electrics are all within code.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/11/2019 14:17:49

You might be asking for a holy grail. I think that if any such design were possible, somebody would've done it and cashed in on it by now. Tool designers must be just as aware as users how the existing designs usually get defeated, circumvented or removed completely.

We have a large wood locally which is a great favourite with serious mountain bikers. Our A&E unit commented recently the huge number of wrist and collar bone injuries that occur in the car park at the roadside. 'Its how you tell the story!" (they would never admit to riding recklessly and accept the risks so do not fit air bags)

I wonder how many people alone in their workshop stop to think how long it would take for help to arrive if a bad accident did occur?

So far as I can see, there's nothing to suggest the extent of any role for machine guarding in these statistics - they may simply reflect the decline in the proportion of the workforce engaged in manual work bearing these risks.

Would the panel agree that if you hurt yourself on a machine then you must have done something stupid? If you hurt yourself then you must have ignored the danger or been unaware of the danger. A competent machine operator should be aware of the danger and work safely. Here is where I digress from health and safety, they seem to think everyone is an idiot and precautions should protect the idiot. I like to think that some of us can make a risk assessment and work safely on a machine that would be risky for an idiot. Even the most dangerous machine can be used safely if you understand the risks and if if the risk is too high then you don’t expose yourself to it. People used to have common sense but we seem to have successfully bred this out of our youth.

Mike

63 years old and still completely intact despite riding motorcycles for 45 years and using tools for 55 years, not entirely without incident but no lasting harm done.

Edited By Mike Poole on 29/11/2019 23:43:47

I must have gone "native" as they say over here...

No chuck guards on lathe, pillar drill or mill.

Shorts, no shirt, no socks, bare feet in flip flops.

Safety wear consists of glasses when grinding or machining, occasionally an apron when doing proper ouch work like mig welding or in the line of fire with the shaper..., but mostly not....

Obviously they can be a pain and restrictive, but really handy for stopping coolant (and chips) from splashing all over the place.

BTW I have a little Clarke CL500M which I would like a chuck guard for if anyone has lying around.

Regards

Danni

Never use them, a total pain-in-the-arse.

Common sense is much more effective.

PS Anyone who leaves the key in the chuck has not got their mind on the job.

Not a great idea !

When contemplating buying a Myford Super Sigma, was asked "Is it for school, college or personal use"?

Apparently for school or college use it has to have a guard, but not for personal use!

My Taiwanese lathe came with a transparent acrylic guard over the chuck and the Toolpost. The Toolpost one soon went onto the shelf. The chuck guard got modified, 'cos it fouled the Faceplate.

Needs constant wiping or washing.

Then modded again, so that it could be removed to prevent a foul with the rear Toolpost when working close up with a Collet Chuck. It has to be down, to allow the lathe to run, so the guard shaft is now a two piece.

Never had a chuck key fly out of the chuck, but had a near miss with my Mandrel Handle because of forgetfulness and carelessness. Fortunately was out of the way. Lesson learned!

Howard

Hmmmm.....

About 6 weeks ago now I think, but less than a week after the lock-down eased, I was working on my steam-lorry on the concrete slabs outside the workshop. To protect th eyar from paint-drips I pinned an old carpet-tile under the wheels. A rain shower started, and hurrying to clear an obstruction to pushing the wagon back into the shed, I caught my foot under the carpet-tile.

I went flying, landing hard on the concrete, on my side and suffering a very painful internal hip injury. An X-ray the next day showed no broken bones but I am still recovering from what was probably a torn ligament. I had my first physiotherapy appointment yesterday, the next is in 4 weeks' time.

I was unable to do anything in the workshop for the first week or so, could not operate any machine for more than a hour so for the next couple of weeks. When I had to move my car a few yards so a road-works team could use a small digger, one of them moved it for me. Dressing is still a bit difficult. I have only just started driving again, and then only short local trips. I have had to cancel an arrangement to inspect a friend's loco boiler for him, and of course I have no idea when I will be fit and safe enough to re-join my caving-project team.

'

Just one second's lapse; one second too quick....

Ironically the rain was so short-lived it had practically stopped by the time I had had to use the wagon and a stack of slabs as hand-holds to pull myself back vaguely upright,

Trip hazards are probably the cause of more (home) workshop injuries than not having a chick guard. The primary thrust of health and safety is learning to automatically think about hazards.

Hope you recouver quickly Nigel. We all come unstuck now and again.

Not used one, then?

Think about where the coolant is going, if the guard only covers the chuck? Not much use if a (large) face plate is substituted for a chuck? A screen would be more useful.

Chips are predominantly produced closer to the tailstock and most of us cut dry, anyway.🙂

Of course, I make every effort to avoid leaving the chuck key installed in the chuck - and even if I did, the soft start, programmed for my VFD, would unlikely do more than stall the lathe in half a turn. It’s what the jog facility is for and would most likely show up the error. Just one more advantage of fitting a three phase motor.🙂

Overall more of a pain and restriction, IMO, but your choice snd good luck in finding an original guard for your lathe, although I expect Machinemart could supply a replacement - eventually.

Hi folks,

The choice to have one fitted is personal really.

I made a sturdy sheet metal wraparound one for my Master, initially to keep the coolant from escaping and drowning me.

I found it invaluable in keeping hot swarf from burning into my clothes and skin.

When down, I can only see round the side of it from the tailstock end, so need to stop the spindle for any inspection.

Stay safe though,

All the best

Bernard.