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Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!

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V8Eng09/11/2010 19:02:51
1826 forum posts
1 photos
 
 

Edited By V8Eng on 09/11/2010 19:09:13

ChrisH10/11/2010 00:06:32
1023 forum posts
30 photos
A friend here in France with a mark 1 type Renault in immaculate condition had a gearbox failure last year - it just stopped selecting gears.  A new one cost him 2000 euros, the car is only worth 1500 euros!
Steve Garnett10/11/2010 00:40:21
837 forum posts
27 photos
Yes, it's bizarre that - putting the components into the vehicle immediately devalues them!
ady10/11/2010 00:50:57
612 forum posts
50 photos
A cylinder head for a mark 2 escort cost me a tenner from a scrapyard.
 
Ian S C10/11/2010 01:59:01
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
I remember talking to some one at the vehicle maintainance garage at the local army base about 20 years ago, just after some one had nicked one of the armies V8 Landrovers, he said if they can keep it going they can have the bloody thing. There are rumours that it had the computor engine management system taken out, and it never gave any problems. It never was found, but I think some know about it.Ian S C
Terryd10/11/2010 04:32:11
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by KWIL on 09/11/2010 14:12:15:

I have a similar car 2.5L V6, do not have auto box, it is nearly 11 years old, everything else as good as Terryd's and it is a Rover 75!!

Hi Kwil,
 
They were (are) extremely good cars, and if I remember correctly they were built under the partnership with BMW with many German parts and design input.  This was after the very influential partnership with Honda had been dissolved when BMW took over.
 
By the way, I'm not certain of the figures but I am told that Britain makes more cars now than ever before because of the Japanese plants of Toyota, Nissan and Honda as well as the BMW Mini plant, and GM and Ford plus the luxury marques and specialist sports car makers.   However this may no longer be true since the Peugeot plant producing the 206 at Ryton closed and the uncertainty surrounding Land Rover and Jaguar.
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 10/11/2010 04:32:57

John Olsen10/11/2010 08:10:00
1294 forum posts
108 photos
1 articles
Now, if you read the old newspapers of the time, you will see that all the strife that the Bristish motor industry got into with quality and so on was all the fault of the workers, at least according to the management of the times. But now the Japanese companies, with those same British workers are producing what are apparently very good cars, if not easy to fix yourself. (But that does not matter too much if they don't break too often...)
 
Note that the only thing that really changed was the management, and of course the quality control systems, and I suspect the motivation of the workers. Some companies are good to work for, some are not. Workers don't really strike becasue they want more money, they strike becasue they are "really annoyed" and the cause is not always what it appears to be.
 
If the only way you can compete is by trying to drive down the wages of your workers, you are doing it wrong. The Americans showed how it is done years back, they always had relatively expensive labour so they got into mass production.
 
regards
John
ady10/11/2010 08:54:37
612 forum posts
50 photos
Management culture comes from the top, and since most managers are giant egos on legs most companies are pretty crap to work for and most people only work for them so they can eat, the economies of scale of larger corporate entities tend to mean better wages.
 
I worked for an amazing british company for a few years, you literally skipped to work in the morning.
It got taken over by an american outfit, same management except for the top and oh boy did that place tank as a place you wanted to willingly work at.
American management practices seem to be not dissimilar to americas religious origins in that they are totally obsessed with the complete control of the individual.
 
The Japanese have an egalitarian society, like the Norwegians, it's like the John Lewis Partnership, the boss of the whole place can't earn more than 10 times the wage of the lowest placed worker so managers who are greedy egotistical b*****ds stay well away and the company can focus on becoming a long term wealth creation powerhouse to the benefit of all concerned.
 

Edited By ady on 10/11/2010 08:59:45

David Clark 110/11/2010 09:20:19
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi John Olsen
To an extent it was the workers.
I used to make pressed parts for Vauxhall.
One part was a sump plate cover.
A circle with a small semicircle at each side with a hole in it.
We kept getting complaints from Vauxhall that the plates were not flat and were leaking.
We planished the plates with a press tool, still they leaked.
The cause of the problem?
When you press something out, one side will have sharp edges, the other side will have rounded edges.
The workers were putting the rounded edge on the sealing face.
Oh dear, it leaks.
The problem was solved by stamping a cross on the radiused side and telling the workers to put the cross on the outside.
That says to me workers at fault.
regards David 
ady10/11/2010 09:23:13
612 forum posts
50 photos
A lot of top managers are highly intelligent psychopaths/sociopaths whose main objective is to amass as much as possible for the self.
The wreckage they create along the way is irrelevant, they have no conscience.
George Bush is a good example(apart from the highly intelligent bit...family connections are more important than ability in his case)
The shareholder system has insufficient controls to prevent these people from rampaging throughout the upper echelons of companies.
 
Countries with an egalitarian culture have all done well for themselves, you can't really get more dissimilar cultures than the Norwegians and the Japanese.
 
And as has already been mentioned, even British car workers have done extremely well once they have proper smart managers instead of smooth talking egos in charge of running the operation.

Edited By ady on 10/11/2010 09:32:42

Terryd10/11/2010 09:34:01
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi David, John, Ady,
 
British workers in such industries as Assembly Plants were treated like unthinking morons who had to do as they were told, no wonder they put the sump plate cover on the wrong way up.  When the Japanese took over the plants, or built new ones they treated the workers as intelligent beings who worked in quality circles and given the responsibility to solve problems themselves. That in turn creates an excellent working environment in which workers thrive and improve production. 
 
You then add modern machinery and efficient systems and quality products are produced.  I worked in the British car industry in the worst days of the 60s and 70s and the Managers were self serving and greedy.  not all, but a significant number.  Many had also been promoted beyond their ability or did not understand the motor industry.  No wonder the workers fell under the spell of the Anarchists.
 
T
ChrisH10/11/2010 13:34:30
1023 forum posts
30 photos
Don't blame all the managers, a lot of middle and senior managers really try their best.  It's often the MD and directors who are to blame.
 
I worked for a company in the 1990's.  Every month we had a managers meeting of all middle and senior managers, chaired by the MD and every month we all went in dread to those meetings because we knew someone was going to get a stuffing in front of everyone else, and whilst that someone was getting that stuffing we the rest all looked down, avoided all eye contact, and thought "there but for the grace of God go I".   What a way to run a company.  You lived in fear of making a mistake.  You couldn't be free to make positive decisions for the benefit of company and personnel in case you got it wrong.  You couldn't criticise directors when they screwed up - they were directors after all and sat next to God didn't you know.  The MD knew what he was doing all too well - he had a degree in psychology.  And if you were an engineer then you were the lowest of the low, a necessary evil that the production and packing departments would like to get rid of if only they could repair the machinery and make it work.  Not that failure there in any way affected their belief they knew all about everything mechanical and electrical better than you.  And never make a joke or have a laugh at anything, we don't do laughter and enjoyment here.  What a way to earn a living, but all too common I fear.
 
I got made redundant in 1999.  A tremendous shock at the time - but quickly came to the belief that it was the best thing that could have happened to me.  As my wife said then, it gave us back a life.  Yet all the time I had worked there I, along with many others, had worked hard and long hours, well over the requirement, for the benefit of that company and the people for which we were responsible.
 
So, I sincerely believe that a company is only as good to work for and successful as a company as the quality, experience, humanism, sense of humour and sense of responsibility of the MD and his fellow directors and their application to the company and personnel.  If you get the wrong set up there, get out when you can - if you can.
 
Perhaps that is where we have gone wrong here in the UK. 

Edited By ChrisH on 10/11/2010 13:36:55

V8Eng10/11/2010 16:09:22
1826 forum posts
1 photos
My Grandfather had an excellent saying which was:-
 
"You don't get owt for nowt".
 
This is something which seems to hold true in life generally.
Dave Jones 110/11/2010 17:37:57
85 forum posts
5 photos
On the positive side, all of the 'old well made' tools are now available second hand at reasonable prices.  I managed to pick up a spotless eclipse micrometer full working order like new for £3 at a boot fair the other week!
 
Good quality tooling and equipment is still out there, but you have a look/pay for it.  For example, I believe the cheapest brand new Myford lathe will cost you just shy of £7000, for that price you could probably equip a full model engineering workshop with far eastern machinery.
 
Regards,
Dave
Andrew Evans10/11/2010 22:51:17
366 forum posts
8 photos
there seems to be lots of nostalgia going on here.....
 
i can think of countless items of manufactured / engineered goods that are 'better' today than 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago (better value, more sophisticated, better made) - cars, planes, boats, trains, household goods, anything electronic, computer software - a massively important area of engineering today where Britain is a leader, biological engineering - again vitally important and where britian is a world leader
 
i am struggling to think of any engineering items that were better in the past than they are today  - give some examples if you can?
 
there are loads of very innovative, world leading British engineering companies out there - yes they are not churning out lathes or trains or washing machines as they did 50 years ago  - they are doing software engineering, electronics, molecular and genetic engineering etc. - we should be proud and supportive of these guys  and not carp on about the demise of the traditional british manufacturing industry which after all happened 30-40 years ago now (and started before most readers of this were even born) and is not something that will be reversed anytime soon

ady10/11/2010 23:59:02
612 forum posts
50 photos
 "Good quality tooling and equipment is still out there, but you have a look/pay for it.  For example, I believe the cheapest brand new Myford lathe will cost you just shy of £7000, for that price you could probably equip a full model engineering workshop with far eastern machinery."
 
For seven grand you could set  yourself up for life using ebay, and your gear would have been an integral part of the carpet bombing of the far east.
 
I kid you not young man.
Chris Trice11/11/2010 01:30:35
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by Andrew Evans on 10/11/2010 22:51:17:

 
 
i am struggling to think of any engineering items that were better in the past than they are today  - give some examples if you can?
 
 

 Screwdrivers, files and chisels.

Edited By Chris Trice on 11/11/2010 01:31:13

ady11/11/2010 01:45:27
612 forum posts
50 photos
Posted by Andrew Evans on 10/11/2010 22:51:17:
i am struggling to think of any engineering items that were better in the past than they are today  - give some examples if you can?
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 
Nope
 
All past tense stuff is rubbish,and you know best.
 
Tell me why I should enlighten you son?
 
What have you got to offer us?

Edited By ady on 11/11/2010 01:47:30

ady11/11/2010 01:48:28
612 forum posts
50 photos
Tell us why you are so much smarter.
 
Or....go away.
ady11/11/2010 01:53:07
612 forum posts
50 photos
I'm happy to be kicked right off the ball park kiddo..
 
If you're the next Frank Wittle then go for it.
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