Chinese diesel heater

Maybe i did read this wrong. If so please accept my sincere apologies

Steve.

My experience is that the building inspectors take a more nuanced view of what counts as a habitable space (which is actually a matter for the planning inspectorate to determine), and that garages and outbuildings under permitted development rights are not classified as such.

Consequently whilst only a selected proportion of the building regulations actually apply to permitted development over 30m², whilst anything under 30m² to which the building regulations applies will generally also require planning permission.

Hello,

Are these diesel heaters like the Eberspacher, which if I remember correctly have a heat exchanger ? Looking on Ebay most of them seem to have gouts of flame coming from them. Trying to heat a workshop with these, seems to be asking for trouble, let alone rusting kit.

Could someone please clarify?

Andrew..

No Andrew that is the sort of pic they use to attract you. It is not like the floor mounted units that run on parrafin or gas. The unit is a direct copy of the Eberspacher unit. Totally enclosed in an Alluminium housing. Looks a bit like an aircooled motorcycle engine. Air is blown around the outside of that .I have the exhaust which does get quite hot glass heatproof wrapped & through a 2 1/2" steel tube in the wall. I many moons ago had a nice Fairline targa boat, which had the same installation. The exhaust exited just above the water line. Through fibreglass skin. Never a problem.

Steve.

Hello Steve,

Many thanks for that clarification. I have had more of my fair share of Eberspachers so it is well within my comfort zone.

Just a quick follow up, do the heaters come with all the necessary bits and pieces, exhausts, heat exchangers

and tanks etc.?

Andrew.

OK. So the heater was £179.99 delivered from ebay. Although Hcalory.com have there own website where they sell heater & coolers , i assume aimed at the motorhome trade. The prices on there are much lower than what i paid.

The box has everything in it to fully install the system. 2 lengths of hose & clips. 2 vents. The exhaust tube & silencer. The outside air tube. Lots of other clips & screws. A 10 litre fuel tank, fuel tubing & a filter + the 12v pump. I did purchase more tubing & another vent. The only other thing you will need is a 12v D.C power source. I bought a ebay 15A supply .

If you watched my video's then you would be wise to contact any seller of these for availability before buying as they are in very short supply.

Steve.

I accept that for garages and outbuildings but they are not normally occupied for any length of time. Even if built as a garage we are talking workshops which are occupied for long periods. This is similar to published guidance that says kitchens generally are habitable spaces but utility rooms are not.

it should be remebered that these units are NOT Eberspachers and are almost certainly built by companies that have no quality systems or approvals. a cracked casting can lead to CO poisoning and a fuel leak to a fire.
The fact the the fuel consumption and heatoutput are mismatched by a factor of 3 even if you assume 100% energy recovery from the diesel does not give confidence in their other claims.

Steve, Does you unit you bought have any approval or certification marks?

Robert G8RPI.

I think i know how to alter the heat settings now , after looking on the Hcalory site & having a good read of the comprehensive manual that came with it. The defaul factory setting for the diesel heaters is min 1.4 Hz Max 5.4Hz.

The heater & i assume all you guys that have then can do the same has an engineering mode, I believe most of them have the same code. press the ok button until a lock appears. then enter 1688 just do one digit then ok to the next digit etc.

In there is all the settings. The low limit for the pump is 0.8Hz. The high limit is 8.0Hz. Then there is min & max fan speed etc. Even the 12/24v selection. So i turned my low down to 0.8HZ & raised the upper to 5.8Hz . No need really for the upper but for me the low will be better as last night even on the lowest setting my room temp kept rising.

So hopeful I will have a better control.

I did watch youtube to death before i got the heater. No one had mentioned the engineering mode. But most of them only come with a few sheets of loo paper as instructions. For anyone who has one then this is how to get in to the Menu.

Steve.

This is the bit I find interesting/amusing.

Steve's package shows a CE mark, which at face value is a valid one, and not "China Export"
Unfortunately we don't know if it's actually valid, or a misrepresentation, deliberate or accidental
The difference is explained HERE
http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

The IIMS, as mentioned in a post above, explain what would be a valid mark, and then show the wrong one.
https://www.iims.org.uk/uk-to-accept-ce-certified-products-with-recreational-craft-directive-until-end-of-2021/

Bill

The setting you are changing i think are the Elevation settings for the mixture

Google Diesel Heater Elevation Settings, then goto images for some charts

Different pumps and *kw heaters require different settings

Most pumps seem to be 0.22ml

‘Fraid you are out by an order of magnitude!

It seems to be accepted that these heaters lose about 600W through the exhaust. That, I think, is the reported recoverable heat which pertains to a “5kW” heater at full power (so would be somewhat less at reduced output).

Even the lesser amongst us should be able to work out the available energy in the fuel at 0.8Hz pump rate.

Crazy to weaken the combustion mixture by so much - thereby losing a greater amount of energy with the excess exhaust gases. 1.4Hz to 0.8Hz is in excess of a 40% reduction in fuel - with likely less than a 5% reduction in combustion air? Someone, I think, needs to realise these settings are not just arbitrary figures grabbed out of thin air.

These heaters (or many of them) are unlikely to be CE approved - or why would Trading Standards be confiscating (or whatever they do) so many units at the point of importation, recently?

Plot does not thicken, but the truth will come out as official (not hearsay or conspirational), now that the authorities have taken some long-awaited action.

The CE mark is actually invalid. It is very subtle but the center bar of the E is too short and the C is too narrow. Also it should have had a energy rating label. We know any energy rating given will be false as the power rating and fuel consumption don't add up.
It is also worrying that the fuel flow rate can be adjusted by the user. As the fan appears to be fixed speed this will affect the mixure and thus emissions and possibly excessive internal temperaures. It's ilke changing the burner jet size on a gas heater.
I'm certain if anyone asked their insurance company about this they would equire the installation to be done or checked by a Competent Person. Practically that means OFTEC registered.

Steve, do you want to ask your insurance company and see what they say?

As we have gone into H&S mode. Dangerous would be one of these This one is in AUS home of the bush fire.

Last saw one operating in winter 1972 ish in a scrapyard shed and glowing a nice cherry red running on sump oil. Even at 19 I knew it was proper dangerous.

Robert,

I think the practical answer will be if Steves workshop burns down and the Brigade find the remains of the heater at the seat of the fire any insurance will be void. They always look for a get out and these things are a sitting duck.

If this was America and someone followed a video on Utube and got a fire then being the country that sue Mcdonalds because there was no warning that the coffee was hot they would probably sue.

BTW In my neck of the woods temporary structures such as sheds and conservatories become part of the habitation when a permanent heating source is added such as a central heating radiator. Portable heaters either plug in or self contained are OK.

Edited By Dave Halford on 03/01/2023 10:24:10

Fortunately we don't need to worry about those dreadful CE marks, which are the devil spoor of useless Brussels bureaucrats, now we've left the European Union.

Luckily for Steve, the box also has the new, super, all British UKCA mark. This replaces CE in the UK, and even though it's almost entirely based on CE rules, the UKCA mark somehow avoids offending delicate national sensibilities.

UKCA marks are still rare in the real world, I've only noticed two. There's a chance the third, on Steve's box, is the first fake ...

Plus ça change

Dave

Hi everyone

Just my Tuppence worth, I've use one of these to heat my workshop for over 4 years now, without any issues and found it the cheapest way, being a child of the 70s before H & S got properly intervened, I used common sense when I installed it. I have a little of grid system solar panel charges car battery which runs the diesel heater, I'm not a electrician or heating engineer just a bodger trying to stop my toys rusting, and no I don't have workshop insurance so it's my own risk,

Hi Dave,

There's a chance the third, on Steve's box, is the first fake ...

Plus ça change

I would say it is a highly probability, not just ‘a chance’.🙂

I'm not sure I follow your logic.

The blown air is going around the outside of the heat exchanger, so increasing output air temperature would necessarily require the thermal input to increase relative to air flow.

The combustion air appears to be supplied via venturi effect around a high velocity atomising burner nozzle, which is presumably designed to self regulate in the 0.5Hz to 8.0Hz parameter space which the control unit will permit.

​

That said the fuel flow rate doesn't appear to be "adjusted by the user" but is buried in an installer mode to allow the thermal output to be matched to demand at setup, so that when the user tries to regulate with the normal controls it actually works effectively; This is entirely similar to other heating appliances.

​

You make a reasonable point about insurance, although I have not found mine to be particularly squeamish about me storing acetylene bottles or having a propane direct fired heater, both confirmed in writing. I am pretty confident that if I rung up and notified them I was using an indirect oil fired heater instead they wouldn't have further questions.

The outbuildings are only covered for £2000 (each) in fire or structural scenarios, but more for theft.

The underwriter has previously explained to my insurance agent that they are not really arsed what I do in outbuildings which are neither connected or proximate to the main house, because their exposure is limited.

​

I did have to do a lot of ringing about to get an insurer who would let me store acetylene tanks, and give a diagram of the property and further details.

Edited By Jelly on 03/01/2023 10:50:35

Edited By Jelly on 03/01/2023 10:51:16

As the fan appears to be fixed speed

Not so - the fan speed varies & the pump cycle rate also varies, getting faster as the fan speed rises.

At start up, the fan runs slowly & after the glow pin heat-up delay, the pumps starts ticking slowly. When the heat exchanger temperature sensor detects that a flame has been established, the glow plug turns off and the fan & pump speed is increased slowly until the unit is running flat out. If operating to a room temperature setpoint, as the room temeperature is approached the fan & pump slow down to reduce heat output - including shutting down completely (another cycle, which involves re-heating the glow plug after stopping the pump to ensure all fuel inside the heater is burned off, then continuing to run the fan until the heat exchanger has cooled down). My Chinese "garage heater" does not appear to operate any differently than the Webasto unit fitted as standard to a previous motorhome in this regard.

I suggest Stevie has a further look at the duct work, which appears to fall way short of the recommended solutions Webasto & Eberspacher detail in their documentation - I would expect the restrictions impostedby the current convoluted ducting applied to both inlet & outlet of the heater will be reducing performance. Chinese heater documentation is rather lacking in this regard !

I suspect that those looking for approvals etc. for these vehicle heaters to be installed as building heaters will look in vain. But as vehicle heaters they appear to have a long track record of safe, economical operation when installed and operated correctly - no reason I can see that one could not do the same in a fixed environment. Carefully installed, I would rather have one of these than an open flame, exhausting-into-the-workspace "torpedo" heater, which would come with "approvals" !

Nigel B.

Hello Nigel. As for pipe lengths. I had a Fairline targa 34 foot motor Yacht fitted with Eberspacher unit. The pipework ran all over to each bedrooom. 1 being at the very front of the boat. 1 in the rear bedroom . 1 In the Galley & 1 outlet at the helm. Much more length of run than my 3 metre. It was factory fitted when new & ran perfectly. I had a few comments from Robert so I rechecked everything.

The fuse was still in the spur that fed the power supply. It had a 5 written on it ???. The heatproof wrap around the exhaust had not fallen off & the steel tube i fitted through the wall was still there. Maybe he watched the wrong video or skipped the boring parts, which was most of it to anyone not wanting etc.

My unit operates as per the eber & the webasto

Fan speed changes exactly as you say to suit the temperature of the heat exchanger unit. Which on the lowest pulse i have slowed slightly.

HNY Steve.