New design of mains plug?

I humbly refer the gentleman to the posts wot he has not read

Neil

A few points. CE markings essentially allow for 'sale within the EU' as complying to recognised EU standards.

For example an IEC cable suitable for connection to French installation wiring will not have a fuse but cannot be plugged into UK buildings. The reverse applies. Yes you can get adaptors but that is 'after the fact' and the original lead remains complient.

Buildings are not sold/shipped internationally so installed wiring is compliant to local nation wiring codes. Fixed installations are not traded accross borders.

The CE marking system is for goods traded within the EU, houses are not CE marked.

As far as following the 'rules', the 'rules' are concerned with the areas common to all which is clearly advantageous as far as trade is concerned. There are other areas where 'rules' apply such as environment, employment government aid to buissness etc. The advantage of these is that each country operates the same regime which disadvantages no single country amongst the rest. (Flat playing field).

Some of the pressure to leave is concerned with that last comment. One can either rest content knowing that your continental competitors face the same overheads as you, or you can be discontent because you cannot gain an advantage. (Other than the normal, be more efficient, invent better stuff and the like).

In a nutshall its a glass half full or half empty question. It's up to you to make your choice.

I have been quite carefull to stay neutral in this post. The last thing we need to do now is start arguing over the EU again.

regards Martin

EU rules are aimed at promoting trade, not at enforcing particular technical solutions. It's forbidden for countries to deliberately come up with technical or other obstacles that prevent one EU member from trading with another.

In the case of BS1363 plugs, there's no consistent obstacle to trade because our plugs can be fitted to their equipment and vice versa. Appliances don't care if the power is from a ring or a spur. It's not difficult to make vacuum cleaners for 230vac 50Hz or 110vac 60Hz by just by swapping the motor, or the electronics. Many electronics devices, like laptops, can be plugged in almost anywhere in the world - their power supplies are clever enough to automatically deal with anything from 230V 50Hz to 110V 60Hz. The UK driving on the left does not stop Peugeot making and selling cars here, nor does driving on the right stop us selling them British made cars. Food, apart from criminal abuse, is safely prepared to a common standard across Europe.

However, we live in an complicated world. The EU allows member states to exercise derogations where local circumstances justify it. For example, the UK exercised a derogation on attempts to equalise working hours across Europe - it was decided Englishmen like working longer than Germans rather than working harder to catch up! The EU is much tougher on nations that attempt to distort trade, such as governments subsidising uncompetitive industries, or enacting unfair tariffs, border controls and tax breaks. (As practised by the USA!)

But technical solutions have to meet consistent safety standards. French domestic electrical systems do it with fused spurs, UK does it with a fused ring and fused plugs.

The difficulty with EU Trade rules is they leak into politics. Trade within Europe is enhanced if everyone uses the same currency, but there are nostalgic and practical reasons for the UK to stick with the Pound rather than adopting the Euro, because we also trade with the rest of the world.

Other examples of UK reluctance are much less sensible: sticking with Imperial measure is almost entirely nostalgic. Metric may make engineering and scientific calculations easier and simplify commerce but no way does that alter tired old grandads view that nothing new should ever happen again.

Dave

I hope I am not being pedantic, but CE markings apply to EEA not just the EU

However I think it is incorrect to place a CE marking on a UK plug. See here

Coming late bu a few comments

1/ SOD - excellent expalnation.

2/ Electrical wiring parts ad mains plugs are not CE marked nor should they be (componens no articles)

3/ In UK plugs must be approved to BS1363. use of non-eu plugs with adaptors in not acceptable.

4/ It is the IMPORTERS responsibility to ensure compliance. If you buy something from China and then complain about compliance you are complaining about yourself.

5/ The OP's unit must be switchmode to met the ratings in the size.

6/ Testing to "20M" is not an indication unless you are using a 1000V insulation tester.

7/ Personally I won't buy ANY mains powered item that is shipped from the far east or where an ebay seller has a far eastern address even if they ship from the UK.

It probably won't happen, but if you buy a mains powered item on banggood or the like and it burns the house down your insurance company could have grounds to reject a claim .

Robert G8RPI>

It is allowed to supply an EU plug with a UK adapter if the adapter cannot be removed or cannot be removed without the use of a tool.

Bert

Lots of things being written on domestic power distribution, not all of which are accurate.

In the beginning properties were wired with a few sockets on radial circuits. Most countries developed their own plug and socket systems. The UK had the round pin 2A, 5A and 15A plugs in two and 3 pin versions. The Germanic countries and a few others had a 16A two round pins to which they later added the side earth connections (Schutzkontakt – hence the name Schuko). The French speaking lands went for two pins and later added an inverted earth pin. You can plug a French plug into a Schuko but you don’t have an earth. The Italians put the earth in the middle and have 10A and 16A versions. The Swiss have a 10A version with an offset earth. The Europeans tended to be a radial circuit per room feeding the lights and sockets. The UK tended to keep sockets and lighting different. In all these cases the fuse for the radial circuit protected the flexible cable against short circuits as long as it was above a specified minimum size. The appliance itself had to protect against overloads, either by making them unlikely or by having an internal fuse.

Then the UK decided to change the system and I will cynically say that this was to make the installation as cheap as possible for the builders and push the costs onto the occupants. Rather than a radial circuit per room (or group of small rooms) they decided on a power circuit and a lighting circuit, one of each in a small property and being duplicated as required in larger ones. To minimise the cost of cable the lighting circuits were 6A with 1mm2 cable and they came up with the ring final circuit for the power circuits. The 2.5mm2 cable with a reduced size uninsulated earth conductor with 30/32A protection was chosen together with fused plugs of a completely new design with rectangular rather than round pins. This left the occupants to buy large heavy 3 pin plugs with an inbuilt fuse to protect the flexible cable rather than a much smaller lighter often 2 pin plug as used elsewhere. The similarities between the mainland systems allowed the development of the 2 pin Europlug which can be used all over Europe except the UK and is ideal for small electronic devices.

The UK carries the legacy of a wiring system which might have been ok when perhaps a couple of electric fires, a vacuum cleaner, a hairdryer, a kettle and the telly were all that were plugged in. Now in the UK the plethora of small electronic devices require a plug larger than themselves and consumes far more materials than necessary. The UK 13A plug is also hazardous due to it’s design. The right angle design means it won’t easily come out if you trip on the wire rather than straight designs. It is heavy and has caused many injuries where people lifted appliances off the top of cupboard or high shelve and were hit by the following plug. Standing on the upturned pins is worse than standing on Lego bricks without shoes. A Europlug is much less unpleasant. Finally the connections to the fuse tend to overheat if the plug is run near it’s 13A rating which can result in the plug softening and the live pin remaining in the socket, still live, when the plug is removed.

Roger

Can anybody remember why we changed from red and black wires to brown and blue for live and neutral ? I think this was approx 50 years ago for flex but only 15 years ago for twin and earth.

I’ve never come across that last problem of plugs softening. Of course, that could not occur when the plugs were made of thermosetting plastic - ie bakelite.🙂

Unfair I agree but Roger's comments reminded me of a spoof consumer programme that made me laugh years ago! Remember Esther Rantzen enraged about faulty goods, before moving on to dogs that say 'sausages', vegetables resembling genitalia, and Odd Odes?

In the spoof a journalist fulminated about the bad design of an AK47 assault rifle because a toddler might hurt himself on the nasty sharp front sight. "So we rang the Gas Board, and they claimed 'This is nothing to do with us'..."

Roger's quite right about 13A plugs though. I stood on one after it bounced off my head, ouch. Fortunately, we Brits are all real men, quite unconcerned about mere agony! When I was 12 Armstrong Minor lost 4 fingers to the school table saw. I asked him if it hurt and he replied 'Only when I laugh'.

Dave

Harmonisation with Europe, all the wiring colours changed including 3ph and DC. You can go into a BT exch and see warning labels everywhere with blue cable on both live and 0V depending on date of install.

Except Europe mostly ignored it.

Theres always an exception.....
Those "adaptors" are fused, only usable on double inculated appliances and approved and are more of a plug that that need a 2 pin 4mm plug fitted first.

Robert G8RPI.

[This posting has been removed]

Twas long before the EU or even EEC. The reason was because red-geen colour blindness id fairly common and swapping over the red and green on a item with exposed metal meant the metal was live. A lot of peopl were electrocuted as a result.

Roert G8RPI,

Because having red for the live wire and green for the earth had potentially unfortunate consequences for people with red-green colour blindness.

[This posting has been removed]

Thank you for replies on wiring colours.Now I’ve been reminded I do remember something about colour blindness all those years ago.

Old books on electrical wiring practice in the UK reveal a rainbow of colours being used at at different times. The UK's delayed move away from Red and Black to Brown and Blue for L & N in 2006 was because Blue was already a phase colour in an earlier scheme. Before Blue, Green was a phase colour, not earth, unless of course it happened to be earth.

Best of all was the DC power convention. Red meant DC live and black meant DC neutral, irrespective of which side was actually plus or minus. So Red could be positive or negative depending on which side of DC system was earthed. Back then electricians needed to have their wits about them, and know exactly which system of many they were working on!

In the early days of electrical distribution wiring regulations depended on standards set by local authorities and/or insurance companies, none of whom agreed with each other. For example some demanded slate switch and fuse panels whilst others insisted on Marble, or particular types of Marble. Different ideas about everything. In 1926 government got fed up the shambles and introduced the National Grid concept, which took until the late 1930s to become established. Grid connected systems harmonised on 250vac and gradually forced out most of the old DC systems and a shoal of different AC systems. Post-war the opportunity was taken to rationalise more, notably in 1947, but standards and regulations have been tweaked many times since.

Everything was simple in the good old days. Not!

Dave

Here is example of a melted 13A plug taken from this report by the Electrical Safety Council:

**LINK**

After all that clever redaction ... They forgot to do the barcode on the bag.

ROFL

MichaelG.

.

Praise where it’s due though ...

That’s a nice thorough report, and should be a warning to us all.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/04/2020 08:15:12