A model engineer gone wrong?

You may like it or not, but the UK is mooving towards a state where anything and everything of use is legislated as dangerous and illegal and as many activities as possible are tightly regulated or (preferably) legislated out of existence.

So perhaps within few years any lathe/mill owners may well have to register their activities with authorities and some if not all of machines (possibly CNC type and also 3D printers) may well get banned as exceedingly dangerous in private hands.

Already those with interests in chemistry have huge difficulties with purchasing simple chemicals even if these are *not* listed as drugs or explosives, or their precursors. So for example nearly all solvents are "toxics".

Somehow I suspect that model engineers and later IT and radio/GSM geeks will end up with their hobbies curtailed.

So I would not be surprised if within a decade or so before anyone of you have sexual intercourse with your wife/GF he will need to secure "Sexual Intercourse Consent Form" crossigned by solicitor. Not doing so will open you to rape investigation.

We are living in society where mediocrity and mindlessness and also complete innumeracy and outright stupidity are the most sought after qualities and any useful skill is vieved with increasing suspicion. All what is needed are mindless mobs of consumers going into debt and spending money as if there is no tommorow. Others are dangerous freaks.

Another question is, how long this type of society can last but all up to date evidence shows that for time being it is well and kicking.

Martin

Edited By Martin Dowing on 19/11/2017 10:19:33

Try looking on Amazon and the web! I am stunned by the amount of chemicals you can buy and get posted to your home address!

And there are folk who'll put together a conspiracy theory from a bus timetable.

Yes, you can get certain chemicals over the web, but the same chemicals about 10 years ago could easily be purchased from regular industrial suppliers without undue difficulties. For example components for electroless nickel plating are now very difficult to purchase and ready to use sets are producing inferior results and on the top of it are unduly expensive.

Martin

I bought a litre of chloroform on eBay from Italy. The goods were in free circulation within the EU so one bottle was duly delivered. OTOH, the last inch of tricho in my old RS Solvent Cleaner can is almost too precious to use. I still have 2 empty marmalade pots with golliwogs on the side.

@Robin,

Isn't it strange that some basic degreaser (chloroform) is to be imported from Italy? That for something worth few pounds you have to pay God knows how much (including p&p)?

BTW, if it is used for degreasing or paint stripping I would recommend dichloromethane.

There's some Golliwog broaches around here somewhere, unless little sister has them at her place.

Ian S C

If push comes to shove I think you can make your own chloroform using acetone and hypochlorite. It has the wonderful property that it can dissolve Perspex/Lucite to give a transparent glue line.

@ Robin,

Hey, acetone may well also be banned, this time because some morons are mixing it with hydrogen peroxide to produce explosive compound (TATP, triacetone triperoxide) used in suicide belts.

Fortunately mixing hypochlorite with vodka and some hydroxide will also produce chloroform.

Initially alcohol is oxidized to acetaldehyde, then chloral is formed and then chloral is converted to chloroform and formate.

Now, why someone should even think about this sort of silliness if in normal society working degreasing solvents should be available off shelf from a corner chemist?

Martin

Funny you should mention that. Have you ever noticed all the numbers on a bus timetable are always in chronological order? Always. Definitely something going on there. No way something that widespread can be coincidence.

Edited By Hopper on 19/11/2017 11:47:28

Way to scare a body, I just bought another 5 litres to feel safe. Wish I'd stocked up on Trike

I don't agree or like keeping guns in private homes. Up until Dunblane all my firearms were kept in secure armouries supervised by the army. Absolutely ideal! After Dunblane, the army brass woke up to the fact that civilian firearms were kept in their armouries! The result was all private firearms were banned from service armouries and hence had to be kept at home.

Can you believe that idiocy! I am more than happy that firearms are kept in secure armouries at the range, but no.!

Silly Old Duffer, please note that you are talking about the lunatic antics of the American NRA and their stupid members. I take offence that you imply FAC holders in this country are of the same ilk.

Andrew.

I don't agree or like keeping guns in private homes. Up until Dunblane all my firearms were kept in secure armouries supervised by the army. Absolutely ideal! After Dunblane, the army brass woke up to the fact that civilian firearms were kept in their armouries! The result was all private firearms were banned from service armouries and hence had to be kept at home.

Can you believe that idiocy! I am more than happy that firearms are kept in secure armouries at the range, but no.!

Silly Old Duffer, please note that you are talking about the lunatic antics of the American NRA and their stupid members. I take offence that you imply FAC holders in this country are of the same ilk.

Andrew.

As I put in a previous post, that's very far from my experience. In more than 30 years holding FAC under 2 different clubs, I never came across any requirement to hold firearms in secure armouries, military or otherwise, before or after Dunblane. It was always a matter of satisfying a local Firearms officer on in-home security.

IMO, SOD is right. Since it's gin-clear that both murderous religious nutters and murderous spree-shooters are all quite prepared to pay the ultimate penalty, upping sentence tarrifs for existing offences can have no effect in bringing the bloodshed to a halt.

We need to address the very difficult faults in society that are driving the urge to commit atrocities, and until we can make some progress there, prohibition of means is the only blunt instrument we have.

I care little about guns being legal to keep at home or not, having no interest in these. Aside of shooting hobby they may only come useful in large scale societal collapse scenarios for the purpose of self defence. In such scenarios criminal underworld and renegade police/military will supply plenty to anyone willingful to pay. In working, organized society they are of no use, perhaps with the exception of most remote areas.

However there is an issue with knee jerk reactions within legislative bodies to call for ban of anything used in spectacular attack here or there. Also to ban something because of rare incidents of illicit use of otherwise legitimate technology. We should realise that most of technology has something what one can describe as *dual use*.

So are we going to ban cars/lorries because of recent spread of successful car attacks?

Ban cough/cold medicines because it is possible to convert some of these into illegal drugs?

Ban computers because pedophiles are storing indecent images of children there?

Ban money because criminals are using them for illicit activities?

Etc.

It seems that "ban mentality" will lead us to nowhere.

Martin

I implied nothing of the sort Andrew! I think you're sensible. But as you've mentioned lunatic antics in this country, don't forget that Thomas Hamilton, Derrick Bird, and Michael Ryan were all FAC holders. And the subject of this thread is a Registered Firearms Dealer.

My point about some pro-gun opinion being unacceptable wasn't intended to offend. Rather I'm saying that if Firearms Law in the UK is to be relaxed then enthusiasts have make a well reasoned case. Ill-considered notions featuring knives, heavier punishments, what happens in other countries, 'rights' or denying links to crime don't help, rather they reduce the groups credibility.

Gun owners have to tackle the big questions head-on. How do you stop someone like Thomas Hamilton flipping out and murdering 16 children? How do you stop guns falling into the wrong hands? Don't take offence chaps, come up with answers. If you do people will support gun ownership again.

Dave

Thomas Hamilton showed signs of mental instability, His gun club asked the police to remove his FAC and guns, not once, but several times. Unfortunately they did not. This never came out at the time. I think the banning of pistols came about as a screen to absolve the police of their laxity. Maybe, maybe not, obviously I don't know the motives of the government of the time.

I have never asked for firearms legislation to be relaxed, in fact there are several ways it could be effectively tightened up with minimal effects on licensed firearms holders. I would certainly not oppose sensible legislation . I would have no objection to having to store guns in an armoury, this would enable much tighter security, than could be had at home.

I am glad that you are not tarring us with the same brush as the US, NRA and their lunatic supporters. I have nothing but contempt for them, it did seem as if you were, reading your post.

Regards,

Andrew.

idiots "stocking up" on chemicals, that's going to help.

Dave

Can you show me in that graph where gun crime has increased?

And a link to the source, or a credit, would be useful.

Thanks

Edited By David Standing 1 on 19/11/2017 20:04:35

I wish I lived in the same world as SOD and Mick B, ban guns instantly, then we will all be safe, phew good thinking chaps, it never occured to me that criminals are far too stupid to import them illegaly, or have them made illegaly or use other devices like explosives, vehicles, chemicals oh yeah knives, nearly forgot them.

So I am with you all the way, but just to be sure we should also ban any sharp instruments, any use of engineering equipment such as lathes, mills etc in case the're used to make weapons and what about 3d printing, I bet the people owning them are printing off undetectable guns as I type, better ban them as well, now if we could also get rid of the internet and mobile phones we can stop criminals communicating and buying all the things we just banned.

Ahhhh safe at last

Edited By Ian Skeldon 2 on 19/11/2017 20:24:44