Build threads.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboBee

Trust Neil to put his one cents worth in!

Should they not have six legs though?

lol, Neil

You do like to live dangerously.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 13/11/2015 17:28:33

First off I certainly wasnt aiming anything at Clive. I didnt know he has bees, someone else mentioned them! But you miss the point entirely. Foe example, Baking is a technical subject to those who bake but if I wanted to read about baking I would go to the apropriate resouce. Put an engineering related topic on the strictly come dancing forum and see what response you get. It will instantly be removed as it has nothing to do with dancing, and therein lies my point. And as for tiresome posts, at least it is on topic.

Post deleted as nothing to do with thread or engineering.

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 13/11/2015 18:25:10

ROTFLMAO

i only read a few of the early posts but I wonder if people appreciate that many people who own telescopes also own a lathe and it's not all that unusual for people who own microscopes either. And then there are those that make tooling to be used in all fields. There is no saying what people might make with those. Bits for motor bikes isn't uncommon or given there is an aircraft thread maybe even bits for those.

So if this should just be a build a stream engine or loco forum what is MEW doing on here ?

Could it be that some people just want what they want and bugger everybody else ?

The other problem with build threads is having sufficient people about who are prepared to write them. There are plenty of often inadequate ones and odd bits and pieces about on the web.

John

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Possibly two reasons we are not seeing a lot of these.

First is the site's very clunky multi-step process for posting pics.

Second is that the last time I saw a beginner ask for help on this forum one member told him he should take up knitting for a hobby and another told him to stick with assembling pre-machined kits.

There are so many forums out there on any given topic that it's a competitive business to attract posters. People will take the easy and pleasant option most of the time.

I am surprised to find that my previous post has been deleted.

[without leaving any Audit Trail]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/11/2015 00:03:14

dear John (W1),

you ignore that fact that since 1924 this hobby has been principally driven by building miniature steam locomotives. Percival Marshall realised this when LBSC started describing the construction series of dear old 'Ayesha', and sales went through the roof. this was the first ever proper construction series in ME of anything. ok, call it a 'build thread' if you like!

virtually all the ME clubs in the UK are principally devoted to building and operating miniature steam locos. the other great somewhat later major ME pursuit is the miniature traction engine, which ME failed to adequately cover except with very small examples for many years.

does this forum adequately cater for either? unfortunately not. it ought so to do!

i think a traction engine in miniature is far more difficult to build than a miniature loco, and i have the greatest respect for those who do, and remember the happy times i spent with Henry Marshall of Gainsborough, and helping do jobs on fullsize traction engines and taking the wheel and driving same.

again, re another thread, to ignore the 'core' subjects of model engineering is very sad.

John, you have a very well equipped workshop of which we have seen many pictures of on here. what do you make in it?

cheers,

julian

Julian,

That adequately describes ME but this forum also covers MEW as well.

I have said this many times in the past but I feel the Americans have the better title with Home Shop Machinist because as many have stated on here, they do not build models.

The M in ME is fully justified but I feel the M in MEW isn't

hi John (Stevenson),

i think you have summed up the problem pretty well in your above post in your usual succinct way! as i stated in my second post on this thread, model engineering is too broad a church. this forum will never be ok if it tries to please everyone all of the time, including apparently the vast majority of armchair members who appear to prefer general irrelevant chat rather than concentrating on what we actually do in our workshops.

i am reminded of a guy called Basil Heath on the Isle of Wight. he was very well off and in his extremely well equipped workshop were a collection of miniature locos he had bought. over the years i noticed the swarf on his lovely lathe was exactly the same. he never used the lathe or anything else. it was all for show!

cheers,

julian

That's one viewpoint. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to impose that viewpoint on the majority who - by your own admission - think otherwise.

As for "armchair members" (appears to be used as a mild slur which some might find slightly offensive) I don't think I could count myself in that group since I spend an hour or two in my shop virtually every afternoon. Nonetheless, I think I would fit right in since I too prefer the "general irrelevant chat" (your term, not mine) that we have right now.

There is nothing wrong in the guy not using what he owns. If he gets pleasure out of just owning it then so what?

Steve

Bandersnatch,

very clever point with which i dont disagree, except to say that perhaps a bit of pruning of dead wood produces a healthier tree.

cheers,

julian

Fine in principal Julian but I think you'd have a hell of a job getting a consensus from the membership as to who should be allowed to operate the pruning shears! The beauty of our "tree" is that we all see it from different perspectives and we all have access to our own personal shears in that we can prune, ie ignore, the bits that we don't want to see.

Returning to the topic of this thread, I really enjoy following build threads, I learn new or alternative techniques from them and can appreciate the workmanship when seeing the finished component. However I don't give a toss where I read them, be it on this site, other sites, magazines or books. If this site doesn't have what I'm looking for I'll look elsewhere but I'll still use this site for the countless other bonuses I get from it.

Regards Martin.

Sadly, and I really do say this with sadness, my experience of meeting and talking with model engineers and visiting several clubs I think the 'golden age of live steam' is drawing to a close, if it has not already ended.

The main barrier is the sheer cost of building or having a copper boiler built built. A Rob Roy boiler kit is £350, for the copper alone and nearly £1,000 for a finished boiler. Choose Rob Roy as about the smallest live steam loco that isn't Tich. Many new entrants to the hobby are budgeting that range of prices for setting up their workshops.

Also, even people of my vintage (in my fifties) have only a vague recollection of mainline services hauled by steam. Many builders choose non-steam prototypes from preference, not because it saves them having to build a boiler.

As a first time loco builder, I chose a small battery-electric design. I would have loved to build a Tich or Rob Roy, but with a family both time and cash are considerations. It would be nice to build a steam loco, but for some reason having started with a 'diesel' my plans keep veering towards a battery powered design in a larger gauge instead. I'm sure that others find themselves in a similar position.

The truth is that unless someone can come up with a cost-effective source of safe, reliable boilers live steam locos are going to increasingly become a minority interest.

I do keep banging on that under Percival Marshall ME was vastly more than a loco-builder magazine. It led the way for many hobbies - boat building, model aircraft, hobby electronics, clockmaking, photography (dare I add telescope making) which now have their own magazines and forums.

These days, would a build thread for a real, engineered, robot (not just a rasberry Pi on wheels) tgarner as much interest as a loco?

Neil

Julian while it might appear that the hobby has been driven by steam loco's and steam engines that isn't really the case. There are way more home machine owners about than makers of either of those and has been since the year dot. That aspect is very likely to increase over time. It used to be pretty easy to buy either ME or MEW. It isn't now. I don't know of a single news agent that stocks it. Even in my time scales ME had to be ordered but odd copies could be seen in some shops.

Model Engineer covered all sorts of things other that steam. Rather a wide range of tooling for instance. Some people were perfectly happy making just that. I have met several people who fall into that category. Even these sorts of people are thin on the ground now. It looks like my DW miller was made by somebody of that nature. The person I bought that off was very disrespectful of his efforts and I would say incapable of matching them even at a trivial level. It's turned in to a buy it hobby, often for what to me looks to be inferior products. Reeve's Marston Green hit the rocks for a similar reason. Shrinking market and some one turning out precision castings that needed very little work and allowed people to build fairly simple engines with little effort at all.

Times change Julian. If people want an engine building forum there is one. I don't think people will be impressed with what it offers in terms of build threads and I would wonder if people would get the degree of help they get on here. I'd love to see a meaningful traction engine or loco build thread just to see how long it would finish up being. Books are available for many things in all of the areas but will suffer from the Myford effect - that is what will have been used to make what ever it is. The Myford effect often results in things being of a certain size too. Fortunately applied to a DW it's not too bad mainly due to weight. If some one designed a machine like that now I wonder what lathe the would pitch it at. I talked to a retailer that bemoaned what he had to do to his rotary table castings to get it one a Myford. It was initially designed to be made in schools. They don't even offer the castings now and I'd guess few would be interested in making one anyway but these days it could go back to the original design.

I do have a very well equipped workshop especially for the space I have available - currently still a problem. As some one put it else where - a lot of wise buys over a long period of time. i have had unwise buys too - 2 lathes in particular. The vast majority of my tooling came with the machines when I bought them. Some tooling often home made was bought off people who for one reason or the other were giving up. At some point when needed I will be doing more work on the rotary table and dividing head I posted shots of - when needed as is always the case with me. I don't mind spending upwards of 2hrs driving to look at something which appears to be ok. I usually convert it to a day out, general nose around and lunch with my wife.

I have a lot of kit for other activities. Largely down to any time I need say some woodwork doing I get a price and then look to see what it would cost to get what ever I need to do the job myself. The price I get quoted will be influenced by where I live. Not a terribly expensive part of B'ham but an area where tradesmen will assume I am incapable of doing anything myself.

I purely make things I need for what ever I am about at the time. This has included tooling especially for woodwork. Bits' for microscopes and telescope, electronics and etc. I've even used a lathe to square up the end of some drain pipe I was replacing. My interests are mercurial - even bits for a guitar at one point but later learned that I had problems learning to play it. I even returned to my model aircraft interest as a child at one point. All the work is as and when needed and mostly pretty small bits and pieces.

I seem to enjoy messing with lathes too. An insane amount of time spent on 2 of them. I currently have 3. A Pultra that may need more work than I think which is an indulgence really. At some point I will enjoy sorting it out. The other one is down to wanting to sort a couple of things out on my Boxford which in real terms are niggles but I will need a 2nd lathe to do it. Bought used, in good condition with it's chucks but oddly no steadies and if at some point I it sell losses wont be much at all. This lathe needs some sorting as well to make it more pleasant to use. I have the bits to do just that and need to make a couple of part to fit them. Later I may make a screw cutting indicator for it or even convert to cnc. I'me getting tired of tidying and sorting things out so have ordered a parting off blade for it so that I can make one of the bits I need on it. The other part will need some dismantling and another lathe while it's in bits.

The last 2 complete things I made, some time ago now was a centring telescope to allow me to set up a particular microscope and a fishing rod ring binding jig. In real terms my kit hasn't been used much for something like 18 months - nothing needed making. I've decided to have a very thorough sort out before doing anything else.

Really it is the people who want build threads who should start them not people who know what they are doing. That sort of person can contribute rather than actually maintain one. I reckon that is the only way any forum will get meaningful ones and mistakes will be made even then.

John

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A lot of exchanges have been made since I started this thread a couple of days ago and thankfully now an admin member has finally made it clear the site of the direction the site will take. I am grateful the position has now been made clear.

It's been my opinion (and many others) that the site has now become so diverse it's no longer a serious engineering site but more of a general chit chat forum to discuss all manner of subjects from beekeeping to astronomy and even the occasional model building - I stand by that view.

I had intended to try to continue posting here by creating another simple build thread in the hope others would follow suit or at least let other beginners see the making of a simpler creation. However having seen the way another member has been verbally abused over his decision to discontinue his build thread I now have had to reconsider..

Whether Garry was right in his decision to pull the plug is open to personal opinion but nevertheless it in no way justified the response he got. A line of decency was crossed once remarks of 'Pantomime dames' and 'anally clean' machinery were mentioned, had there been any chance of him having a rethink and continuing the thread has now been finally closed, and who can blame him ?

As though the abuse in itself wasn't bad enough, moderators allowed it to continue when they should have been proactive from the start - that in itself speaks volumes.

I really can't be bothered to create a simple beginners build thread here when core material of interest gets lost in discussion about beekeeping and the Andromeda galaxy so for that reason I have taken the decision to cease posting here and will endeavour to try and create an item of interest for beginners elsewhere.

I'd like to thank those who have supported my stance and to those who offered advice etc during my build work.

As the creator of this post may I please request that a moderator now locks the thread.

Thanks

Peter.

Edited By Peter Nichols on 14/11/2015 14:11:14

4 Pages of comments and read nearly 4000 times. I sincerely hope it is not locked just because it did not go all your own way given the number of other opinions!

Is this not a public forum? If you want control of a transcript, keep it private....

Mark