3-D Printing

Interesting sentiment, Rod. I have a minilathe and an X2 mill. I don't have a Myford, but I consider those who do lucky, not elitist.

Neil.

On a personal note I have started casting again. I say 'again' but the reality is that as a schoolboy I did a good deal of casting in White Metal and a good few years have now passed. A while ago when I wanted to make something in Aluminium I thought I might just "Do it Myself" and it has gone on from there. I am presently setting up to cast in Bronze. And thoroughly enjoying it too.

graham.

As Super 7 owner I consider myself lucky. John doesn't (from the First Lathe thread)

"Myford have a name and mystique about them they don't really deserve"

Rod

my second point on the 11th was that if say someone writes an article on how to produces say SIMPLEX wheel patterns or another popular design via 3D printer then i can see Reeves, Blackgates et al not being very happy! i was always a bit surprised that ME published terry aspin's articles on backyard foundry stuff, notwithstanding the safety issues. no magazine can afford to upset those who provide the advertising revenue!

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 13/02/2014 00:21:40

It's very similar to some of the debates I remember about digital cameras when they were in their infancy. One thing was "sure" at that time - they wouldn't replace photographic film in anyone's lifetime.

So basically everyone is saying they are here to stay but refusing to accept the inevitable ?

Sounds about right.

In Victoria Australia where I live manufacturing is shrinking and will continue to do so due to pressure from Asia. many foundry's have closed down. The survivors will mainly be the businesses that have adopted best practice and new technology. Hopefully there may be a couple of small family run concerns most likely to be in the country where floor space is cheap to fill the needs of model makers, however their future is tenuous.

It looks like pattern making is as we know it is already gone CNC replacing patternmakers (It is no longer offered as a trade school subject), and now as I posted earlier the patterns themselves are going, 3D printed sand moulds will prevail, the labour savings alone will force it. And don't forget the vast warehouses of stored patterns eating up costs....Gone.

The makers of model castings better put their thinking caps on.

We are passed the point where we can resist change it has already happened...... 3D printing CNC and CAD. we better get used to them.

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 13/02/2014 01:14:55

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No, John; not "everyone" is taking that position

I am genuinely interested in the possibilities, but have no experience of "the trade" ... which is why I asked specific questions, on page_2 of this thread.

MichaelG.

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P.S.   I presume that many of us are old enough to remember Hot Metal printing of Newspapers ... Without wishing to  labour the comparison, I think there are lessons to be learned from history.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/02/2014 07:46:35

So what you are basically saying is that ME & MEW should not cover anything that may take away trade from a supplier? But it would be OK to have an article about making patterns for an obscure design and sending them off to a foundry.

The problem with that is the exact same methods could be used for existing designs it just needs the part sketching out in CAD so where do you draw the line? Should I stop my long detailed build threads on other forums where I show stationary steam engines fabricated without castings for the risk that someone may want to save a few quid and fabricate a part using the same methods rather than buy as a casting?

What about all the articles on making tooling in MEW irrespective of how its made, 75% of the time you could buy the tooling if you did not want to make your own but that would do the tool supplier out of business.

J

Edited By JasonB on 13/02/2014 07:53:20

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{Note: for convenience, I have corrected the typo when quoting my question.}

Edited By JasonB on 13/02/2014 08:55:01

Many Thanks, Jason

I'm beginning to understand the "workflow".

So; are the "Lost Wax" casters happy to accept PLA as Wax ?

That may seem a pedantic question, but I think we need clarity.

MichaelG.

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Edited By jason udall on 13/02/2014 09:34:29

If you roll up to the foundry I use with a part or pattern they will do it - no problem.

I have even rolled up with broken motor end cases that have been rough welded back together and the missing bits from the explosion replaced with folded up cardboard and bondo, they will still do them as a one off emergency repair

Roll up with a drawing and you get blank looks, lets face it that step from drawing to pattern is that vast you just can't afford it unless you want 10,000 off.

In fact i think I posted this before but perhaps not in this thread. When I took the project part up the other week I was offered some bronze regimental badges to print out as patterns.

They have had these years from the looks of them but getting someone interested enough to do the pattern is the stumbling block based on cost.

Personally at the moment I can't do it because of time constraints and I'm not that good yet on 3D CAD.

However something that has only just occurred to me is that this side of the hobby could replace the manual side as in winter when it's too cold to go out in the shop or being kept out of the shop thru illness.

Hi There

If you have some regimental badges you want to cast perhaps you could cast them in resin and use the resin as patterns. Yes, there might be slight shrinkage but not a lot.

With companies going bust, I am considering making patterns and then making resin casts of them.

Then I can send the resin casts to the foundry and keep the expensive or time consuming masters in case the foundry goes bust and my patterns are lost.

Only thing I need to do is find out what I can get away with with resin patterns.

I have all the bits to make the moulds and cast the resin.

regards david

It is mostly about economics. At present it is cheaper to use 3D printing to produce patterns for small items and also has the advantage of being able to get more detail by investment casting. Here is an example that was investment cast starting from a 3D printed pattern from which a latex mould was made and finally the waxes:

For larger items it is still cheaper to produce patterns by CNC machining. A recent example is these castings produced from a High density polyurethane CNC machined patterns The finished tread sizes are in this case 7 7/8 inches:

In both these cases a 3D CAD model was required and that is where the skill lies.

MW's post has made me sad that my remaining 20 years will not be long enough to see all these exciting new developments.
I see little threat to the ME casting suppliers. Home foundries have always been around and local ones were more common. TIme and skills were more available in the past for wooden pattern making but as with tool choices - make or buy- model engineers have always chosen which stages they want to get involved in doing. Who runs a blast furnace at home just because it is possible. In practice we are seeing more people interested in ready cast and machined parts than wanting to go back a stage and make their own patterns. Fewer people are making their own boilers. Nowadays many of us have the money not time so we use the time we have for the bits that aren't available off the shelf.

David, the problem in the cast of the regimental badges is that they are badly worn at the edges and a lot of the lettering is indistinct.

They know what they look like, you can even find the artwork on line, it's tha artwork to physical pattern that takes the time, hence the cost.

As Ennech says above the 'secret' is in knowing 3D CAD but that's not going to happen for the readers as the vast majority don't want to know and it's not really the scope of the mag to tech the few who do.