Ally Pally show

Thinking on it cost me £50 in petrol, £10 each [there were 3 of us] entry fee to Ally Pally plus car parking charges [as the car park was full. ] By the time it's added up with the cost of a cup of tea etc, the day cost getting on for £100 without taking into account any purchases from trade stands etc.

It may be in the future that I support the smaller society organised shows [see link on RS entry above] at least that way I can have an outing in the country, maybe a good for value pub lunch, support a society and more than likeley see something I've not already seen before.

IDP

Tbh the ally pally show was a great disappointment. Some regular traders not present, Chronos and Hemingway immediately spring to mind but there were others missing. Other traders such as Chester and home and workshop machinery had distinctly downsized their stands. H&W have a much larger presence at sandown but I suspect this is down to pitch pricing. There also seemed to be much more free space and less club stands at AP than in previous years.

All in all, taking into account travel costs and show entry, and the general lack of show discounts, there was not really any benefit in going, I could have better spent the £30+ in costs on online purchases even taking into account any postage costs.

These shows really need to have a rethink or they will become non viable. It was notably not busy on Friday!

Aside from state subsidised museums and some of the very small visitor attractions there aren't many days out for £30 a head these days, including the travel.

Neil

How far have some of you travelled, I checked out train tickets for four of us to travel from Sandy, Bedfordshire to Alexandra Palace return on Sunday and it cost us £6.00 each, getting in was dearer £9.00 but a lovely cheap day.

Martin P

I went to the show on Saturday as a newbie this is my first show which I enjoyed a lot. I travelled up from Devon cost me approx. £100 in fares and entrance (not something to do every month)The another £150 on stuff!! But I have trouble understanding the logic of some of the people on here if they want good shows with lots of traders then they should attend whenever possible we've only got ourselves to blame - it's the old saying "use it or lose it - it's your choice" I shall be going again next year

Limpet. The big fault to my mind with these shows are.for the traders that need to foot the over the top stand fees.i understand thst some pay nearly 8000 pounds or more for a stand, add on travel, hotel bills and they need to take in a lot of money.

Years back I went to shows to get ideas, see what others are doing.also traders sometimes had show offers which in a way paid for the door fee.

These days, you can get ideas from the net.there are no show discounts unless you want to buy s Chinese milling machine.the cost of fuel, makes it a new starter for many.and once you have been to a few, well it just becomes boring.michael

Terry I appreciate that the traders have high costs in attending these events and I also appreciate how mundane it can get when you've been to a lot over the years - perhaps as a newbie I'm looking at it from the perspective you did several years ago. I too went for ideas and to see what others are doing. down in Devon there's very little that goes on in the way of exhibition. I know Bristol is closer but work restricts me attending during the late summer to Christmas. But surely the more people that say how disappointing things are when comparing with different times the more others will be influenced and all the quicker will the shows go, what will the next generation of model engineers do then.

Limpet.i am in somerset, so cost of travel much the same.i have a few other hobbies which I have done for many years.i dont go to any of the shows anymore, sorry to say that they just are not the same.and the one common factor for all of them is the high costs for the traders, some poor stands, maybe a general lack of interest.

Its not for me to support the next generation of model engineers, maybe there will not be one, who knows.i know that sounds a little negative but I feel at show level its for the traders to make the running.at club level there is a lot to see and enjoy.last year I went with a few club members to swansea engineering club.what a great day out.their display of club locomotives put most national shows to shame.for me these days a visit to a club, talking to other people about their locomotives beats any national show hands down.

Unless these big shows start becoming less about money, they will kill themselves off.maybe that would be a good think.michael

It seems to me that the average spend for attending a show is about £100. If you consider that there is easily five or so shows throughout the year then this equates to £500. That's a good deal of material or tooling, and if I'm going to sped that much, I want value for money.

Maybe what the hobby wants is just one or two really good shows running for more than an extended weekend.

IDP

What this is all about is economics. If the traders are charged less for a stand then the cost to us for entry goes up. We have seen from the above posts that many of you are unhappy with the cost of the day out at present prices, if the entry is increased then less people will attend, it becomes a vicious circle. The show organisers have a balancing act to perform because at the end of the day they need to make a profit. Even local shows need to show some profit in order to make it worthwhile, they cannot afford to run at a loss either.What it boils down to is if you want the shows then you will have to pay for them, simple economics! That applies to traders as well as us ordinary punters.

Dusty,

I cannot fault your thinking on this with one exception.

Taken ten years ago all this would be true but today we have the internet. The figure of £8000 has been bandied about for a show for the larger traders but this isn't the end of it, reckon in fuel, vehicle hire or in Warco's case he runs his own 42 tonne artic and they don't come cheap and unlike his other 7 1/2 tonners which do deliveries as well this unit is show use only.

Then hotels, overtime for stand employees, meals etc and you can add on half as much again.

So say £12,000 if you are selling on a markup of 100% [ fat chance ] you need to sell £18,000 worth of goods in 3 days just to break even.

So as Dusty says it's all about economics.

Now we have readers on here from all walks of life, many from an IT background and they will be able to tell me better how much it costs per year to run a web based company alongside a physical shop.

Certainly not 12 grand and you have the shop open 24 / 7 / 365 just not 3 days.

Ten years ago I couldn't get a stand at the NEC for the Spring or Autumn shows. I could "get on the list".

Today the organisers email addresses are in my Spam filter because I get so many offers to attend at "Great Rates" it has become annoying.

Go figure.

Might be worth clubs in the west doing a coach.

We did one for Bristol this year and in the old days used to do the midlands. Even one passenger can halve the cost of a car but there can be problems with people who only want ten minutes and then start whining that there is nothing there and want to go home. Quite a lot of our retired members do half a dozen in a people carrier.

Last year taunton club went by coach to the show just outside Warwick. But I dont think there is much interest in travelling further then that.michael

My experience of shows in recent years -

Joint 1st = Harrogate & Bristol. Both quite a"flog" from Brighton, but very worthwhile.

2nd = ME xbn. Not too far to go, quite a doddle.

3rd = Pickets Lock, LondonME show. Usually very bad weather. 2013, booked up to go with club coach but ill on the day. 2014, said "hang it" had enough of bad weather, not doing that one again. Also, coach used to drop us @ front steps but in 2012, we were dumped round the back thanks to the parking idiots and we got frozen and soaked traipsing round to the front. So mad I said i`d not go again, little realising just how true that would become!

4th = Brighton Modelworld. Flash the bus-pass and short walk! Mostly "pins-and-glue." Expensive entry. No ME traders. Only Worthing, Brighton, maybe Uckfield clubs with engines I can see on any trackday. Just not worth going.

I usually do Bristol as a very long day trip. I find Harrogate bit of a tiring trip just one way so has to be an over-2-night do, which starts to cost quite a lot. Got it down to a fine art now with accomodation as low as it gets and I dont reckon to pay around £8 for a so-called breakfast of a few miserable bits. Either sarnies from Sainsburys (and petrol) as they are close by or fry-up @ a cafe. I know a good chippy for evening meal in H. Not healthy eating but just 2 days doesn`t matter. Normally do Bristol most years and Harrogate alternate years due to cost.

Forgot Guildford in July. Gone every year and liked it - not far to drive again. Shock, horror! 2013 show so awful may not go this year. Shame on organisers.

Also forgot Midlands show in Warwicks. Went about 3 years ago not impressed, find it quite a rotten journey from Brighton, probably wont go again.

West country xbn - too expensive and probably noy enough engineering interest.

Manchester xbn, too far to be bothered.

So there you have it FWIW

I, for one, would like to exhibit more models (I've only put one in a show once). I'm a bit nervous of competitions, but happy to enter a loan. 'The work of 'ordinary mortals' is important as it give encouragment to speople startiong out and those who will never win a DoE award.

The problem is that even MMEX was a 90-mile round trip, so doing that twice to drop off and collect was a pain, especially as both delivery and pick up were outside the main exhibition times - I ended up going three times so I could see the full show (my dad and one of my brothers came along and met up with me as well).

In short, if we are to see plenty of models (which is what makes a show for me and gets plenty of punters in) some sort of pick up and return service would make a big difference - although who would want to take the responsibility of moving other people's models these days?

Neil

I have to agree with Limpet, we use these shows or we lose them !. The internet is great and most useful but as Supermarkets were to Corner Shops , it will be the death of the Shows as they are just now, if not used in a responsible way.

As I said earlier, I went to the Show at Ally Pally, but could not carry all that I wanted, I therefore dealt with one of the Traders who had Exhibited there over the phone this week and bought what I wanted, the point being that, though I could purchase cheaper from some suppliers who had not been at the show, I felt strongly that those who had been there had earned the right to have the business, whats more ,having informed this particular supplier of this, they matched their competitors price. Win , Win in my view.

Oompa Lumpa seems to contradict what the majority are saying in regard to Exhibitors costs, he says , if I understand him correctly, that he is bombarded with great rates as an inducement to take a show stand ?,are these rates not also on offer to the other traders ?.

I personally think that the shows have been used by certain traders to establish their businesess, and having done so, and having created a decent customer base from the modelling fraternity, they now wish to profit from our business without attending the shows. I strongly urge anyone making a purchase to use those who provide us with the respect of exhibiting at our various shows and in turn support them wherever possible.

I'm with you all the way DAG. After all it's us punters that really have the say who we buy from. Just a note on models on the net and I do a lot of net searching both at home and at work it's just not in the same league as seeing something in the flesh it's akin to watching a film on the telly or going to the live show and 90% of us are prepared to pay extra for the live show.

My wife and I have been selling in another Hobby market for 10 years, we make everything we sell in my garage workshop by using CNC . We now attend one third of the UK shows that we started at because the smaller shows are just not profitable, so now it's four UK shows per year, not 12. But we now fly to the USA to trade at two shows which cost us half of the UK stand costs and give us 250% increased takings. We also have almost the same experience in F, D and NL however we can drive there!

By going abroad we also help stimulate web sales which are very much cheaper than " UK Show" sales, most of our trade comes from outside the UK now. Like many other exhibitors we are seriously considering pulling out of UK shows, many traders have already realised that the ever increasing UK exhibition charges have priced them out of their local markets. Running a stand is hard work, a two day show is at least a three or four day event for a trader, it costs a lot of money paid in advance. So if you cannot get a small reward then you learn the hard way and don't repeat the mistake. It is not a matter of "rights to business" or any other romantic notion, if you don't earn then the "punters" have voted you out next time. Simple, honest and hard.

Signs of Show decline include the reduced number of trade stands and the increase in seating and free stands to help fill the Hall. It is an unstable state, as the trade stands decline those traders left have to pay much more to give others more free space. Any new traders then face much greater start up costs which stops them from starting! There has been mention of reduced rate stands, this is the quickest way of closing a show down ever devised. Traders talk to each other and belong to associations, if anyone ever picked up that free or discounted stands were being offered then that would close that show if all of the existing exhibitors did not get exactly the same treatment. It would be interesting to hear of any free stands at any show- put us down for 50 stands right away and we will bring some friends.

We see very different conditions outside the UK, the venues are FAR better, you don't need wellies in the toilets and you get a good food choice without feeling that you have been mugged. These half UK cost shows are also growing in size, scope and duration and have a real international dimension. If only UK Organisers were that clever!

Billy and Sue.