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Which New Lathe; choices, choices...

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JasonB15/11/2010 20:39:16
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Pro Machine Tools do the Wabeco range in teh UK. I have used them in the past for a couple of spare belts for my Emco and they were able to get them from Austria even though the lathe had not been made for about 20years. They have been at Sandown in the past maybe David could say if they will be there this year.
 
Jason
Andrew Johnston15/11/2010 22:22:05
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7061 forum posts
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Hi Edmund,
 
I'm not directly familiar with the lathes you're considering, but if you'd like to have a cuppa and a chat about lathes, and flying, feel free to drop by, I'm not that far away. You can even nip down in the Jabiru, I'm right on the edge of Bourn airfield.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
David Clark 116/11/2010 09:21:20
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3357 forum posts
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Hi There
At the moment I don't believe they have booked.
Just as well because we are running out of space.
Sandown Park will be bursting at the seams this year.
 
Belts are readily available, I used to buy mine from the local bearing shop.
regards David
Bogstandard16/11/2010 10:09:57
263 forum posts
TerryD,
 
No offence was intended.
 
It was the reference that my owning chinese machines that was the problem. To me, it came over that because I have and use them, means that they MUST be OK.
 
I do extol the virtues of the lathe and mill I do possess, but not quite so other earlier chinese machinery that I own, and would recommend those two if someone asked me personally if those particular models were any good.
Which shows the problem, impartial advice. I can only go on my experiences about two machines (plus a few others that I have had the good fortune to closely inspect and use) and others that I have owned or used during my lifetime.
 
You just can't group a large range of machines into a single phrase as being all good or all bad. There will always be a few black sheep lurking in the background, and then some real gems.
 
But one thing I do know, having followed the course of far eastern machines since from some of the  hammer and chisel creations they came up with in the 70's and 80's, to modern day high precision offerings. In the last ten years, their quality has taken a massive leap forwards, and if they continue on the same course, in another ten years, the quality should be up with the best of them.
 
BUT, the prices will also rise, like recently. Very rarely can you find quality and cheapness hand in hand. The more that is done by the manufacturers to gain that quality and fine tuning, the more you will have to pay for an item.
 
Bogs
 
EtheAv8r16/11/2010 16:08:44
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I am already in touch with Pro machine Tools and plan to go and visit them in the coming week or so.
 
I have seen the Ceriani a few weeks ago on a visit to Chester tools, where I determined I would go for the DB10V - the Ceriani looked really nice, but at that time I was working to a lower budget.  I have now got a detailed quote for a Ceriani and bits neede to make it useful.... Ouch!
 
I plan to have a DRO - the Chester Ceriani quote includes a budget one already fitted by them for very reasonable money.  The Wabeco DRO looks to be in an altogether different price league, but Pro Machine Tools also offer the Newall Microsyn, but still over twice the price of the Chester budget item.
 
Andrew - I will indeed take up your kind offer.  I don't go to Bourne often (landing fes...) but regularly fly into Main Hall farm in Connington - next door to Bourne, but also live only 15 miles away and the drive is nowt.
Andrew Johnston16/11/2010 22:09:55
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7061 forum posts
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Hi Edmund,
 
Ah, didn't think about landing fees. I've done my bi-annual renewal flight a few times from Bourn, but I've only flown in there once from somewhere else. That was in the Pawnee, to drag a glider out, and being in the evening, there wasn't anybody there to collect a landing fee!
 
I'll PM you with contact details.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2010 22:10:22

blowlamp16/11/2010 23:11:43
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1885 forum posts
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In view of some of the evidence here http://www.lathes.co.uk/wabeco/index.html and here http://www.lathes.co.uk/wabeco/page8.html of these machines being of quite basic construction, I'd be more inclined to try Myford, as something like this  http://www.myford.com/200301.html is probably cheaper and easier to tool up.
 
Martin.
EtheAv8r24/11/2010 20:25:03
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Choice now made - Wabeco D6000E.  Was nearly the Wabeco D3000E - in fact it was ordered after a 5 hour visit to Pro Machine tools where I recieved lots of help, no hassle, and was left on my own to play with all 3 machines. 
 
The D4000E is a truely wonderfull little machine, very fine quality and perfectly up to all my model helicopter and small parts needs, it is so dinky I fell in love with it.  But the E3000E is so much more capable, and with the very fine feed screws on everything, perfect for small, accurate work, but I went for the Wabeco D6000E (after getting home and revieing my decision to order the D3000E) with a Newall DRO to future proof any potential growth in.
 
I did not want a Myford.

Edited By EtheAv8r on 24/11/2010 20:26:29

Terryd24/11/2010 21:57:19
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi There,
 
Does the machine have Powered cross feed, I was thinking of tbuying one but didn't think it was available with this facility?  Also have they overcome the problem of the reverse mechanism on the leadscrew?
 
Terry
blowlamp24/11/2010 23:08:59
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1885 forum posts
111 photos
Terry.
No, I don't think this lathe comes with Power Cross Feed, nor any change to the Tumbler Reverse mechanism.
While I'm here though, can you tell me what kind of chuck fitting your new Warco lathe has?
 
Martin.
EtheAv8r25/11/2010 00:08:34
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Posted by Terryd on 24/11/2010 21:57:19:
Hi There,
 
Does the machine have Powered cross feed, I was thinking of tbuying one but didn't think it was available with this facility?  Also have they overcome the problem of the reverse mechanism on the leadscrew?
 
Terry
 
 
Not aware of any problem with reverse on leadscrew, nothing found on searching for problems with Wabeco, all worked fine in my 'playing', and they have a 5 year warrenty.  No power cross-feed.
JasonB25/11/2010 07:32:55
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25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
The warco lathe has a 52mm parallel spigot and a flange that takes 3 studs, fiddly to get to especially with the faceplate, also the 3 jaw is quite tight on the spigot to keep concentricity.
 
I think the Wabeco is the same chuck fitting as the My old Emco, simmilar to the warco but rather than a parallel spigot it has a slight taper on a 4mm long spigot so once the nuts are loosened just a tap with the heel of your hand will release the chuck.
 
Jason
Terryd25/11/2010 23:13:11
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1946 forum posts
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Hi EtheAv8r,
 
The leadscrew reverse mechanism has a reverse lever but was only operable by trying to access an 'inaccessible ' nut see here.  I just wondered if they had managed to overcome this problem.yet.
 
T
Terryd25/11/2010 23:18:37
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Blowlamp,
 
It is flange fitting, which while a bit inconvenient at least overcomes the problems I had with my Boxford unscrewing when using in reverse.  I would have preferred a camlok but couldn't justify the expense for my limited Hobby use.  I had  chance of a Harrison m300 but my colleague insisted in sending it to a local auction which I could not attend,  It raised £10.00 Yes ten pounds
 
Terry
Lathejack26/11/2010 04:43:46
339 forum posts
337 photos
EtheAv8r
 
 Wow! I was convinced you would go for the Ceriani. In some of Wabecos old adverts for the D6000 they used to proudly boast that it could 'Remove 10 mm of stock in a single pass'. A 5 mm depth of cut is a bit extreme i know, but interesting to try. It would be interesting to know how it performs compared to the WM280, which is based on the Wabeco, owned by JasonB and Terryd. The 280 looks just as heavily built, if not a bit heavier.
 
 Oh God! An M300 going for ten pounds. I'm going to have to sit down for a long time with a very strong coffee and a huge pile of biscuits before i get over that one.

Edited By Lathejack on 26/11/2010 04:44:33

Terryd26/11/2010 09:14:49
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Lathejack,
 
If you think my example of the M300 was a bit of a shock, how about this.
 
The father of one of my neighbours worked in a local well known engineering firm (Alfred Herbert).  When the Company closed down he took retirement but he spotted an almost unused machine in the R & D dept and asked if he could buy it for his son, my neighbour. 
 
Yes he was told you can have it for scrap value, and as the old boy was a lifetime served employee they charitably estimated it at £20.00  He was told to take the tooling and the other 'bits and pieces' as well because it was all going in the skip and it would save them the bother.
 
My neighbour is now the proud owner of a fully equipped and tooled Bridgeport Vertical milling machine.  That will be a lot of strong coffee and several packets of chocolate digestives I think!!!
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 26/11/2010 09:18:10

EtheAv8r26/11/2010 11:38:29
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111 forum posts
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Terryd
 
OK now I understand what you are saying (as the leadscrew reverse is at the flick of a switch and could not be simpler...) the ability to cut left had threads......  I will ask the supplier about this, but to be honest, I cannot see me ever wanting to cut left hand threads, with the caveat of 'never say never..).
 
Leatherjack
 
I have to say that I thought I would be going for the Ceriani, mainly because I did not think I would be able to afford the D6000E which would have been my machine f choice..... the Ceriani is very pretty and looks an excellent machine.  Capacity-wise it compares more closely with the Wabeco D3000E, which has just slightly bigger numbers, except the motor, which is double the power, plus with the independant infinitely variable feed speed, and fine control (but more winds for a given travel distance in all axis)  put it ahead of the Ceriani for me. 
 
The D6000E is a much bigger and more capable machine, and the Newall DRO, though more expensive than the Chester one they quoted for the Ceriani, is a much better device in terms of capability and robustness.  The Wabeco won out because it is very well made, beautifully engineered, the controls were wonderfully smooth, it is way bigger and chunkier and more capable, hardenened bed (Ceriani not hardened), very quiet when running, I liked the way it works and is operated, and it has a significanly bigger capacity and capability and I am confident I will never want anything bigger.  Add the 5 year warranty, the fact that the distributer is just 40 minutes up the road, and the fact that the dealer was flexible and willing to negotiate a financially attractive full package that got me all I wanted to get started at a price I was (eventually) willing to (just) afford.
 
The Chester DRO supplied and fitted complete was at a very low price (like a third of the Newall on the Wabeco)  - low enough to make it supiciously low, but even so the final costs of the Ceriani package vs the Wabeco package were not that far apart, and the D6000E deal makes for so much better value.
 
I think I could have bought any of the 4 machines in my original list and been happy, but now I know that in the future I won't be wishing I had gone for a bigger machine.  In all honesty the D4000E will do all I want at the moment, but for the difference in price the D6000E gives so much more potential.
Terryd26/11/2010 11:59:09
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi EtheAv8r,
 
Did you go for the larger bored spindle because that is one thing, that while not immediately obvious, the larger the better.  There is nothing more frustrating than having to turn the end of a 25 mm shaft and find that it is beyond the capacity of the spindle and you haven't got the expensive fixed steady.
 
I'm also interested to know what extras you bought, eg 4 jaw sc chuck, 4 jaw independent, travelling steady, fixed 3 point steady etc or can you get after market bits which match the lathe?  Sorry if I seem nosy but I am genuinely interested.
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 26/11/2010 12:04:00

KWIL26/11/2010 12:44:55
3681 forum posts
70 photos
EtheAv8r,
 
You will not regret going for the Newall microsyn, I decided a long time ago that an industrial DRO was always going to be better than a cheapy and the Newall scales are extremely robust and accurate. All my machines are equiped with Newall.
blowlamp26/11/2010 21:04:30
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1885 forum posts
111 photos
Jason and Terry.
Thanks for the information on the Warco lathe.
Terry... I'm still sat next to Lathejack, peering at a soggy M300 lathe brochure, whilst crying my eyes out and thinking about what could have been with the £38.50 I have in my pocket.
 
Martin.
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