Member postings for Lathejack

Well lots of useful suggestions already, with lots of choice from either a new imported machine or an older used machine.

The Sieg C4 has already been mentioned, and I still think it might be one of the lathes worth considering.

Although you are upsizing, I am having to start downsizing, and have spent at least the last 15 years considering what machines to buy as the time approaches, and the Siege SC3 together with a Siege SC4 were the two lathes I have settled on.

I recently visited Arceurotrade to view and buy the SC3 and SC4. I had not previously managed to have a proper look at an SC4 lathe in the flesh. Well the Siege SC4 was certainly an impressive machine, I felt like my eyes were popping out of my head like a kid in a sweet shop. A very well made, solid and substantial lathe which looked a worthwhile step up from a mini lathe. Apart from the smaller spindle bore it has a comparable capacity with a similar swing but longer between centres to the AMA210 that you were considering. The SC4 also has the benefit of power feeds built into the apron giving power cross feed and longitudinal power feed, plus lots of Tee slots.

The helpful staff at Arc are straight talking with no nonsense, so would give good advice either way if you had any doubts.

I intended to run the new SC3 lathe in the living room on tiny parts, just to keep me mechanically occupied when I couldn't leave the house, and then buy an SC4 for the workshop, to replace my bigger Warco lathe, for use on the now rare occasions I can sneak into the workshop for the odd hour or two.

Things didn't go to plan unfortunately for me, and I don't think i will be able to buy the machines I want from Arc, but I still think there is enough of a step up from a C3 to the impressive SC4 to make it a worthwhile upgrade.

In fact I am sure someone on this forum has moved up from a Clarke C3 lathe and bought a C4 lathe, and is more than happy with no regrets, I think it may have been Niel Wyatt, not absolutely sure.

Several years ago I decided to fit a pair of better V belts to my Warco VMC milling machine, so I bought a pair of new cogged belts,

The result was horrific, with knocking, clanking and rattling as the hinged intermediate pulley and the motor on it's hinged mounting plate vibrated and jumped about. Examining the two new cogged belts revealed that the shape of the V section was not consistent along the length of the belts, causing the belts to ride in and out of the V pulleys affecting the belt tension.

I replaced them with a pair of ordinary V belts and peace was restored.

 So yes, what Dave S said!

Edited By Lathejack on 23/09/2023 20:35:35

Edited By Lathejack on 23/09/2023 20:37:20

Well the time has come to start some downsizing of my workshop equipment.

My partner Ruth is severely disabled with MS and getting worse. So with my limited time and energy to tinker in the workshop and not wanting to become lumbered with large and heavy machines and all the problems of moving them in the future I have decided the bigger stuff may have to go. I hope to replace them with smaller lighter machines that can easily be lifted into a car or van for moving when needed.

The fist casualty is my beloved Smart & Brown Model A lathe, here it is already loaded up and ready to go on the new owners trailer, he is a friend who owns and restores old buses and tractors.

My plan was to put the cash towards a C3 Mini lathe and a new Sieg SC4 lathe, but I have just noticed that the Sieg SC4 lathe price from Arc has recently risen by about £300, so that has probably knocked that dea on the head.

I have owned the old S&B lathe for at least 25 years, it was great to use and sad it has gone, but time moves on and circumstances change so it is the first that had to go.

Edited By Lathejack on 28/05/2023 18:23:46

Some of those power feed units used to come supplied with a spare Zytel gear mounted on the inside of the bottom plastic cover. The unit I bought for my Warco VMC some years ago had the spare gear, as did the one we bought for the Bridgeport mill at work.

I bought these keyless chucks from the Model Engineering exhibitions, probably around 15 years ago.

The black one on the left is a Vertex, with a very smooth operation and the unloaded jaws are precisely located with no play at all, although that is not particularly important. But the upper knurled collar is a steel pressing, and a bit of a dent is visible on the top edge from when I dropped it. I bought two of these, one for the lathe and the other for my mill.

The larger bodied chuck on the right is one from RDG, this also has a nice smooth action but has a nice thick solid steel knurled collar at the top and no brand name. Like a lot of RDG tooling at the ME shows this was on display piled in a heap in trays along with other taper tooling, so may at first appear to be possibly a bit cheap and nasty, but it is very good quality and has worked faultlessly and is used mostly in my Elliot drill press.

Although the RDG chuck has a much larger body than the Vertex item, they both have a maximum capacity of 13mm. Both these chucks can lose their grip if run in reverse, for instance when tapping.

Edited By Lathejack on 12/03/2023 21:18:31

Edited By Lathejack on 12/03/2023 21:19:46

Great work, and a fairly major task. It must have been a little daunting to finally switch on and start taking the first cut in the bore, no turning back once you get going.

I've often wondered how much bearing surface there is inside the bore for the quill on many of these mills. From your earlier photos, and other images of them, I had assumed they had bored the full length of the internal casting, or most of it, to fit the quill. So was a bit disappointed that there was only a couple of short areas of bearing surface for the quill, but I suppose that is a lot quicker and easier for the manufacturer.

The Condore and Bridgport mills we have at work, and the new Bridgeport clones I have looked at, have a quill that is a very close fit in the head casting, so there is a small amount of drag on the sliding quill. A Hobbymat BFE mill I once owned was manufactured with a cast iron liner in the Alluminium alloy head casting that was bored and honed with a cross hatch pattern to a very close fit to the quill, with no detectable play and a small amount of drag on the quill.

Where did you get the iron liner from? What was it originally intended for, or was it made to suit your purpose?

I have a lightly used 1997 Taiwanese made Warco VMC mill that I bought when it was only a few months old. The head casting is bored for its full length to suit the quill diameter, and there is a small amount of clearance around the quill which is a free sliding fit in the bore with no drag. This clearance really shows up when using a boring head with its single point cutter, as the quill slides further out lubricating oil can just be seen being squeezed in and out of the small clearance as the quill rolls around in the bore as the single cutter rotates.

Anyway, really great work and always interested to see more.

I had two GH1330 lathes from Warco in 2004, and they both had the same problem. The first 1330 was the worst, and the pattern of rings could be felt with the fingers, the replacement new GH1330 lathe, that I still have, also had the pattern but it was a little fainter.

The pattern of rings is more visible on metals such as Alluminium Alloy, brass and bronze, and is produced when the fine feed is engaged which is driven by a separate power feed shaft. On my 1330 lathe the pitch of the rings was equal to the distance the saddle travels for every revolution of the feed shaft. It doesn't matter what feed rate is selected, the saddle still travels the same distance per revolution of the feed shaft, but the pattern was only visible with a fine feedrate.

After much investigation and experimenting I traced it to the fine feed worm moving slightly in and out of mesh with the bronze worm wheel at the back of the apron. The bore of the steel worm gear was slightly eccentric to its teeth, and the feed shaft was a sloppy fit in the bores of the casting that support it either side of the worm gear. The worm gear is also only supported by the feed shaft, so with the feed shaft rolling about in the oversize bores of the casting the eccentricity was made even worse.

I cured it by boring out the casting and fitting needle roller bearings, and made a steel sleeve to carry the worm gear and support it in the needle bearings independently of the feedshaft. I also mounted the steel worm gear on an arbor and shaved the gear teeth slightly until they were concentric with its bore. I had to make a smaller diameter power feed shaft to fit through the 15mm bore of the sleeve that I made to support the worm gear.

I may have gone a bit far, and it was a lot of work, but it cured the problem. Yours may require a much simpler fix, hopefully.

I don't have a link, but if you type "Chester Super Lux advice" into the search box above it should take you there, it worked when I just tried it.

It is a recent thread, started about early November 2022.

A very good quality machine, which appears to have a bed casting with three vee way guides that uses two vee ways to guide the saddle, as opposed to the more commonly used single vee and a flat guideway for the saddle found on many other vee bed lathes.

Well the Cormak ZX7045 is the common Far Eastern six speed geared head mill that has been around for years, with versions of it sold in the UK by Warco, Chester and others. Some other similar versions come with a powered quill feed.

Generally they are fairly well made, but dirty and grimy assembly of the internals of some of these relatively low cost Chinese geared head mills, and lathes, is not uncommon. This is not a criticism, it's just the way they are.

Taf_Pembs on this forum has done an interesting thread on a comprehensive strip, improvement and rebuild of his similar Chester Superlux mill. Not only the head, but the whole machine, so well worth a look.

Jon's Workshop on YouTube has also done a strip and rebuild of his Cormak ZX7045 gear head mill.

I also wanted to fit a three phase motor and VFD to my drill press, so I bought a 4 pole TEC motor which runs at the same speed as the originally fitted motor.

My drill press is an Elliot 2G, the belt goes straight from the 4 step motor pulley to the spindle pulley, so it does not have an intermediate pulley. Instead it has a high and low range gearbox built in, originally giving a speed range from 46 RPM to over 2000 with plenty of torque.

The VFD is just the icing on the cake, or would be if I ever get round to fitting it. I bought the new TEC motor, VFD and pendant control from Transwave over 15 years ago I think, and they have sat in their boxes ever since.

Maybe this is another thread started by someone that might inspire me to get yet another unfinished job completed, before it is too late.

Edited By Lathejack on 10/01/2023 00:28:05

Jan, thanks for the photos, yes, that is the Iathe I remember. A very good lathe, and the triple vee guidways are a very nice feature.

It is the same lathe that was also just branded as the Lantaine, and also branded as Lam as well as other names. A quality Taiwanese belt drive lathe, but the triple vee ways is what distinguishes it from similar versions.

 Would be interesting to know if it has a similar fine feedrate to Riks much later Chinese BH600, which is clearly descended from it.

Edited By Lathejack on 09/01/2023 23:04:41

It would be interesting to see some photos of your lathe. I remember that in the1980's, before their BH1127 then 1327 lathes, Warco offered a lathe similar to their much later Chinese made BH600.

The earlier lathe had the same looking castings and components as the first of their Chinese BH600 lathe, but the much earlier version was produced in Taiwan and built to a higher standard. It also had a lathe bed formed with three vee guidways, with two vee ways being used to guide the saddle.

I thought this was the model BH300 or 300B, with 300 referring to the swing, but I wonder if your Warco 350 is the same machine I am thinking of.

Nice job Rik, this might inspire me to finally get on and do the same job on my lathe.

It is many years since I fiddled with a Warco BH600, but I think the finest longitudinal feed rate is 0.0047" if I remember correctly, which is a little too course for a fine finish.

I have a Warco GH1330 and it has the same issue, but the problem is disguised somewhat because when new these lathes come supplied and fitted with an extra set of changewheels. With these fitted the finest longitudinal feedrate is 0.0026" and uses a 100 tooth gear on the gearbox input shaft, but threads cannot be cut with this set up.

When the changewheels are set up to cut a range of imperial threads the finest feedrate increases to over 0.0052" and this uses a 48 tooth gear on the gearbox input shaft. So despite having a full screwcutting gearbox it still requires fiddling about with messy changewheels in order to attain fine feeds or threads.

So for for many years I have been intending to fit a 96 tooth gear on the gearbox, this would allow some thread pitches and a feedrate of around 0.003". Or cut a new feed worm with an 8 TPI pitch and matching gear to replace the 4 TPI worm that sits behind the apron, so then the screwcutting  changewheels can stay in place, might get round to that job one day.

Edited By Lathejack on 09/01/2023 14:15:43

Edited By Lathejack on 09/01/2023 14:28:02

It has been quite interesting watching the dismantling and fixing of your geared head mill, with some good work correcting all the nastiness you found.

Some of the gear teeth look a little worse for wear, but now you have the internals all cleaned, realigned and with fresh bearings it should still have a long trouble free life. There is even one pair of helical gears in there, is that long shaft with the helical gears meshing on the end actually the input shaft driven by the motor mounted on the top cover above it? It looks like the top cover sat upside down on the bench.

Will be interested to see the work on the quill and spindle assembly.

Edited By Lathejack on 25/11/2022 17:14:51

But it is not just a Far Eastern hobby machine quality, or you get what you pay for, sort of issue is it.

If you pay for a new unused machine, in as new condition, then that is what you should get, regardless of its country of origin or build quality, or price.

John D.

The quill assembly on your Myford VMC is a very similar design to the quill on my later type Warco VMC. Now you have dismantled it, just out of interest, what type of bearings does it have? Does it have two bearings in the bottom housing of the quill, and how many in the top?

The rather poor manual that came with my Warco VMC claimed that it had two bearings in the bottom, if I remember correctly, but the manuals are not always accurate.

I would also add that Warco's offer to give John either a full refund, or the £200 that he has accepted, seems a fair offer to me, regardless of the reason why they declined to exchange the lathe for another.

Although their claim that "It definitely didn't leave here like that" seems a little absurd. 

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 19:32:08

Well, as a long time Warco 1330 lathe owner I never have, and never would buy from them again, even if they would want to sell to me again.

When I purchased a new full price 1330 lathe from them in 2004 I was sent an ex demo/display machine in a terrible state, even though I warned them not to send me a demo/display machine, only a new machine, while I was face to face with the boss in their showroom. I was promised that I would of course receive a new unused machine, but that is not what Warco did.

I did get them to replace it, because of the very bad state it was in, and it also shook badly at certain speeds and left a deep ridged pattern in the work. Although the replacement had its own set of problems. 

Now I still have respect for Warco, and hope they continue to be there for a long time to come. They have treated many customers very well. But for me the trust has gone a long time ago, unfortunately.

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 17:53:15

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 17:54:23

Edited By Lathejack on 15/11/2022 17:59:36

A useful diagram of the milling head from John Purdy, looks impressive with five bearings supporting the spindle. It does appear to be a diagram of the slightly larger turret mill, that uses a quill of the same diameter, about 86mm I think, for its full length.

The VMC mills such as the Warco have a 75mm diameter quill that increases to 100mm diameter at the bottom, and the Myford VMC quill looks similar to this although the head casting and depth stop are different.

I've just had another closer look at my VMC quill through the depth stop slot in the front of the head casting. It looks to have one castelated nut sat on a tab washer above the top bearing to secure the spindle.

 I have owned this mill for about 24 years and it is a long time ago when I removed the quill. I didn't remove the spindle but i think it uses two bearings in the bottom 100mm diameter of the quill, but I am not sure if there are two in the top or just one. They are not taper roller bearings, they are ball bearings of some type and I am not sure if they are designed to take preload or not.

Edited By Lathejack on 14/11/2022 10:39:18

Edited By Lathejack on 14/11/2022 10:46:28