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Choice of small milling machine

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David Hanlon27/04/2010 05:45:12
40 forum posts
Hi Hansrudolf,
 
I hope to document in some form my adventures in this new hobby, although it may take a while given I have still to work to pay for it! Yes, I have the famous test report with a lot of check boxes and 7 measurements...
 
Measurement                                       Spec                         Result
 
Flatness of worktable surfacce         0.03                           0.02
 
Parallelism of T slot to table              0.04                           0.03
longitudinal parallelism

Parallelism of table to table              a. 0.02                        a.0.02
movement a (longitudinal)                b. 0.02                        b.0.02       
(b)cross
 
Runout of spindle hole
a. at spindle nose                                a. 0.01                     a. 0,01
b. 100 distance                                    b. 0.02                     b. 0.015
 
squareness of table longitudinal      0.02                             0.015
and cross movement
 
Squareness of spindle axis to          a. 0.05                        0.04
table a. R and L b. forw and               b. 0.05                        0.03
back
 
Squareness of spindle sleeve         a. 0.03                        0.02
movement to table a. R and L         b. 0.03                        0.02
b.forw and back
 
Need to dash and get packed so more at the weekend.
 
Dave
Martin W27/04/2010 17:34:40
940 forum posts
30 photos
David
 
Isn't it nice to see that the machine equals or betters the specification parameters. I must admit that in the past I have had reservations re these acceptance charts but having had a small (Chinese origin) lathe from a mainstream supplier I was very impressed with its performance and accuracy. Just goes to show you can get good oriental products and I know for a fact that Warco and Chester offer excellent support services as well.
 
Nice one
 
Regards
 
 
Martin
David Hanlon02/05/2010 18:26:53
40 forum posts
Latest Update:
 
WM-14 is now out of the crate and on the bench, It has been plugged in and runs, and all displays light up and the knobs work. The next step will be to open Milling-A Complete Course and get to work making some T-nuts etc.
 
Hans Rudolf asked "Please check lead and backlash of the spindles, and are all the same?" If someone is willing to tell me how to do that, I will have a go.
 
Next question  : as an engineer (semiconductor NOT mechanical - hence lots of questions)  I am used to writing reports, but I don't see a venue for posting documents ( e.g. several pages of A4) on this site - anybody know if the webmaster has any plans?
 
Dave
Versaboss02/05/2010 21:43:01
512 forum posts
77 photos

Hi David, thanks for submitting the data of the test report. Yes, I get the impression that all is ok.

As some months ago I heard about a complaint from someone about the 'strange and unequal' spindle pitches (see posting from 20.12.09) , I make my question a bit clearer:

- what are the pitches (in mm or TPI) of the x, the y and possibly also the z spindles?

Re. the backlash: either put a DTI plunger on the table, move forward to a convenient  number on the DTI and check then on the graduated scale how much you can turn back until the table starts to move again.

If you have no DTI, but the mill has a table lock, just lock the table and check again how much you can turn the handle without force.. I really hope this description is clear enough.

I hope I am right in assuming  that the new model of this mill is much better than the old one.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

David Hanlon03/05/2010 08:07:19
40 forum posts
Hi Hansrudolf,
 
I have a DTI and your instructions are clear. I will be in the workshop during the week since I am working from home this week so I will give it a go.
 
Dave
Peter Wood 503/05/2010 08:54:32
94 forum posts
11 photos
Robin
 
I had a Warco mini mill for three years and whilst it served me well it had all the faults mentioned previously.
Backlash, particularly on the X-axis was up to half a turn. The problem was effectively solved by fitting a DRO but at some cost.
The gears were a constant problem and I went through four sets!!
Finally the table was just not long enough to accomodate a vertical rotary table and tailstock when I wanted to millflutes on a column.
 
However I always found Warco staff exceedingly helpful and particularly their engineers in the workshop.
 
Despite this I replaced the mini mill with an AMA25LV from Amadeal. It is exactly the same as the Warco WM 16 and about £200 cheaper.  A no brainer really.
 
 
Having now used it on a few jobs the difference in performance is amazing. The gears are much smoother and quieter and the extra refinements make life so much easier eg DRO on the head, travel stops, tachometer, one screw gib adjustments etc.
 
One final thought. I also hired an engine hoist to install it an it made light work of the job.
 
Peter
 
David Hanlon03/05/2010 18:30:00
40 forum posts
Did a quick check of the backlash by locking the table.
 
X direction ( Left and Right ) = 0.15mm or 3 divisions on the handwheel
Y direction (back and forward) = 0.1mm or 2 divisions on the handwheel
 
Both directions are a little "sticky" but then the shipping "grease" has yet to be cleaned off and it has the consistency of a mild glue.In either case this seems a little excessive to me but OK for the moment since my machining skills are nil anyway.
 
As for the z (vertical) axis since this has a DRO fitted it seems pretty accurate once I had figured out how to engage the fine feed. 
 
Dave
 
 


Chris03/05/2010 18:52:23
87 forum posts
13 photos
Hi Peter, just been on the amadeal site. Some very good prices. Have you any knowledge of their tilt and swivel vices? They are very well priced and look sound but pictures can be deceptive.
Chris
Robin Graham29/10/2011 22:36:48
1089 forum posts
345 photos
Hello again. Is it really 18 months since I last posted? I've been coping with my father's health problems, finally sold his house last week. Anyhow, many thanks to you all for your helpful responses to my questions. I ended up buying the WM14 milling machine which seems surprisingly good for its size, but not really had time to evaluate properly. Thanks again for your input, . Regards, Robin
David Haynes29/11/2011 07:47:47
168 forum posts
26 photos
Hi folks and sorry for repeating this message to those of you who read it else where. Bit of a surprise for me and I don't know why I didn't see it before, but Axminster are selling this Sieg universal mill http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-su1-universal-mill-prod854146/ for a price comparable with the X3. It is a little smaller capacity (16mm versus 25mm cutters) with a 500w motor against the X3's 600w. Does anyone have any experience of this mill?
Thanks
Dave
Michael Gilligan29/11/2011 09:29:45
avatar
23121 forum posts
1360 photos
Daid Haynes,

Sorry, no experience of the Sieg SU1, but it certainly looks promising.

I did, however, find a PDF of the manual
http://s3.amazonaws.com/machinetools_production/uploads/1145397/SU1.pdf

MichaelG.
blowlamp29/11/2011 09:57:29
avatar
1885 forum posts
111 photos
David.
I would say that machine would be a good size for a clockmaker.
 
 
Martin.
Roger Woollett29/11/2011 10:04:55
148 forum posts
6 photos
Two points. The manual MichaelG points us at suggests that the motor has brushes (see fault finding) but Axminster quote brushless. I suspect Axminster are right but it would be worth checking. The lowest speed quoted is 200 rpm which sounds a bit high to me. A slitting saw used on steel might need a slower speed - I would rather see 50 rpm.
 
Roger Woollett
Michael Gilligan29/11/2011 11:13:10
avatar
23121 forum posts
1360 photos
Initial response:
Two excellent points, Roger.

It would certainly be nicer to have a Brushless Motor; and hopefully that one comes under "continuous development".

Agreed, the lowest speed is a bit high, but that's probably a necessary compromise at this price point.
... Who will be first to design a little epicyclic gearbox for this one ?

MichaelG.

Updated:
The Parts List actually shows Part_120 as 500W Brushless Motor [not to be confused with Part_40 which appears to be wrongly described in the Parts List ... compare with the exploded view]
Page 8 gives the speed range as 0-2500 rpm
... It looks like a winner!

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 11:24:42

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 11:25:19

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 11:34:53

David Haynes29/11/2011 12:37:19
168 forum posts
26 photos
Thank you for the comments folks,
 
Martin, so okay for a clock maker, what size of locomotives? Of course it won't do 1/8 scale, but probably something a bit smaller. Is the low headroom and small chuck (16mm) an issue and is the X3 (25mm and same price) a better bet?
 
Dave
blowlamp29/11/2011 13:08:29
avatar
1885 forum posts
111 photos
David.
The nose to table distance of 150mm max, makes it very limited in its capabilities once a vice and a reasonably sized drill are in use.
 
 
 
Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 29/11/2011 13:09:03

Stub Mandrel29/11/2011 20:00:03
avatar
4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
I noticed the Arc/Seig machines (lathe & mill) with brushless motors only go down to about 200rpm. I wonder if this is a precaution against overheating?
 
My 'old' Clarke Seiglathe and Arc Mill both happily go down to about a dozen rpm. Great for an unbalanced boring head.
 
Neil
Steve Withnell29/11/2011 20:08:14
avatar
858 forum posts
215 photos
Hi and don't forget to buy a copy of Harold Halls - "Milling a Complete Course". Make some T nuts to get used to the machine and how it works.
 
And have fun !
 
 
Steve
Michael Gilligan29/11/2011 20:08:52
avatar
23121 forum posts
1360 photos
Very probable that 200rpm is a realistic bottom limit, both for torque and heat dissipation ... although, as I mentioned earlier, the manual does indicate a range of 0-2500rpm.

I certainly think a little Epicyclic Gearbox would be the way to go.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 20:09:34

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 20:11:11

David Haynes01/12/2011 09:31:52
168 forum posts
26 photos
I've missed the boat! With all this looking into which milling machine I want to buy and deciding on the X3/Imperial/R8 spindle, now that I contact ArcEuro, they've sold all the Sieg X3/Imperial/R8 spindle they have and the next order will be in late January/early February. Dash, no treat for Christmas! <img src=" src="http://s2.images.proboards.com/sad.gif">
However, my route to get here has been Sieg X2 --> Amadeal? --> Chester Eagle 25 --> Sieg X3/Imperial/R8 spindle. So I suppose the not dashing at the first start will mean that what I get is the best option for me. It also means I can fix the new electrics for the mill and sort out the dolls house for my daughter's Christmas present. Look at the good side of a poor do (sadly, the price in the new year will go back up again and no freebies, but I'll have to turn a blind eye to that!)
Many thanks for the interest
Dave
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