I would like to challenge the premise that because vaccines have been through a full and lengthy testing regime then they are considered 100% safe with no risks attached. When my eldest daughter was three months old, and this was in 1967, she had the first of her infant vaccinations, this caused her to have her a series of convulsions and left her partially paralysed. Some time after the event analysis showed that she was not unique, other families had suffered the same events and the “problem” was officially classified as vaccine damage, this was from a proprietary vaccine which I would assume PatJ would accept as fully tested through a lengthy programme and deemed “safe”. There is no such animal as a 100% safe vaccine, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be vaccinated, there is risk in anything that we do in life, the percentage risk in having Covid vaccines has been demonstrated to be such a minuscule percentage of the total number of vaccinations given that it is virtually unrecordable. The risk of problems with a Covid vaccine if displayed alongside other conventional “tried and tested” vaccines would in all probability be no better or no worse. Figures in this country have shown that currently deaths from Covid are much higher from individuals who are unvaccinated against those that have been vaccinated, some would argue that this could be propaganda to coerce doubters to take up vaccines, you have to make your own mind up on that issue. I can understand where PatJ is coming from with his belief in the right to freedom of choice, I have worked briefly in the USA and their culture is very different to ours in the UK, particularly when you consider the difference in Political systems. Despite our family having in the past having had a bad experience with vaccinations we all firmly believe in the Covid vaccinations, I did spend 22 years in the Services where choice in respect of vaccines was not an option and I lived to tell the tale. Dave W

COVID-19 Vaccine Analysis Overview

Government data concerning vaccine reactions.

You can search for specific conditions vs vaccine manufacturer.

Edited By blowlamp on 17/11/2021 11:01:51

Different natural laws seem to apply in the US. For instance, from what I've read , the Amal carburettors and Lucas electrical systems that have served me well over the last 50 years in the UK, don't work at all in the US. The US reaction to vaccine may well be affected by these anomalies.

Some amazing posts on this thread, and then I read pgk pgk and returned to some semblance of sanity, and then had a laugh at A Smith's contribution. Hopefully Darwin will win in the end.

Rod

Your very first post politicized it here, come to that a red is a communist in the old world.

We don't have the vitriol you have either.

Obviously because the petrol is smaller.

" Only a heartless fool would suggest ,even as I assume made in jest, denying treatment to the unvaccinated as a policy of victim shaming based on the totally false "doctors have refused to treat the fat or smokers"narrative. "

Paul not false - if you are overweight doctors do refuse operations.

I get amused by anyone decrying genetic manipulation, the vast majority of food that we eat has been genetically modified, albeit using Mendalian genetics. Your genes will have been genetically altered by chemical and the other organisms that made upto 50% of your body.
I remember when Ivomectin was first being pushed by Pfizer as a pour on wormer. It has been around for animal use for some time.
No medical intervention is 100% safe. i wonder how many read the side effects of the drugs that they take? Some certainly list death as a side effect. It is a judgement on the advantages and possible side effects that has to be undertaken, the few of the general public have the ability to do this. One thing that is obvious from this pandemic is that many have read scientific papers, but lack the ability to understand what they have read..

If you don't like the idea that other organisms in your body genetically manipulate your DNA you could have them killed, but I wouldn't recommend this, it will make you very ill.

Just an observation: The recent postings in this topic seem to be dominated by persons who are not prepared to display a "member's profile". Yes, A Smith, I also used either foot to change gear, sometimes both at once.

I find all this sadly amusing. I hope a moderator does not shut it down.

JA

Edited By JA on 17/11/2021 16:25:05

Keith; doctors do not refuse treatment because of obesity or smoking. Rather they assess that the outcomes would be so poor as to make surgery an unacceptable risk to the patient with these adverse factors.

Circlip; I agree with much that you say except the what was most likely a tongue in cheek suggestion of some sort of purity test before treatment. I applaud your measures to protect your own health.

pgk; again I agree with most of your posting but must suggest an inaccuracy. Correct me if I am wrong but vetinary practice has not been using mRNA vaccines for many years. AFAIK this is new technology, and is certainly deployed for the first time in humans with some Covid vaccine (Moderna Pfizer etc) . I agree that millions of doses have demonstrated marvellous safety but this was a gigantic human biological experiment. Though one I support it would be foolish to ignore the concern raised by the University of Brisbane experience of rushing to produce just such an RNA vaccine (abandoned last December). Briefly they used materiel which produced a positive HIV test in a number of the trial subjects. I read, but an not isolate the source, that the building block was material taken from the HIV virus which of course is extensively studied, so readily available. The researchers blithely stated post hoc that "they had considered this possibility". Glad I was not a volunteer!

I remain aghast at the strident demonising of very often ill educated people. Those most guilty are the zealots who hammer on about "the science' when, with masks, spread by fomites and mRNA manipulation these scientific authorities have, like the rest of us, feet of clay.

Whilst various people are enthusiastically agreeing with PatJ, it seems to me that we shouldn't take too much notice of someone who has not posted on any other subject and who merely seems to be spouting the conspiracy theory nonsense which seems to be so prevalent in the US currently. Perhaps a Moderator would like to check this and, if deemed necessary, take appropriate action.

Tom

PatJ sounds like a T**t.

Tony

Americans are a lot more drug aware than uk people because every second advert on the TV is plugging something to fix their life

I was shocked at the depth of knowledge of branded drugs everyone on a US based site had, and they were ALL on this or that or t'other

It was only a gambling site

Oxycontin was the in-thing at that time, the super-smartie for US based adults, I'd never heard of it