Is society becoming more stupid

my youngest boy was making stuff on the lathe age 7 albeit with dad supervising and hand on em stop switch.

he can weld as well and did his own bike.

only reason doesn't now is no workshop and everything in storage.

but still goes climbing trees and wading in streams etc.

we even built shelter and slept out in woods last year.

i can send my 18 yr old girl a txt saying bring old clothes and get reply of yay adventure time.

although i worry about their safety i try to give them good memories.

and all my kids know safety first can't count number of times been caught and told off by them for being naughty daddy.

Edited By mick70 on 09/03/2018 13:21:43

Some of the posts may not be evidence based but the theme is the same. We are producing a protectionist society of young people with a poor practical self help experience of life. That actually has an indirect influence on our hobby ----so it is relevant to our forum.

It is relevant because the young of today are loosing the experience of practical project & the learning on how to develop practical skills of the type needed for our hobby. Perhaps thing like youtube take the necessity for practical experience away from life but surely the experience of doing something & actually learning from it must be better than looking at a screen. If the young are faced with things that make them aware of the dangers of life & make them actually do things for themselves it will develop a different mindset for the future

Just look at the things grandfathers can do in our hobbies that the young of today will never even understand. true they may never need to as things change - but is that the point? ---If not Why do we still play with steam

It's not really the society, its the lawyers

If the system lets you sue someone for dumb stuff then the system only has itself to blame as it gets dumber and dumber

One kid in the US was sueing his parents because they wouldn't let him play football

"Just look at the things grandfathers can do in our hobbies that the young of today will never even understand."

Now there is a two way street if ever I saw one and probably if you are a 'Grandad' one which has priority for oncoming traffic.

regards Martin

"Just look at the things the young of today can do in their hobbies that their grandfathers will never even understand."

I actually think that the young and the old have more in common in their struggles than they realise, it's the ones in the middle that they find it hardest to relate to.

Michael W

I think you'll find that young people aren't quite as helpless as you imagine! A counter argument might mention Extreme Sports, most of which weren't done when I was a lad. Any volunteers for a day out Base Jumping or Powerbocking? Not me, the water might be cold.

Also of course, young people are interested in different things, and they work in a different world to us. Not for them the simplicity of manual labour, semi-skilled work and solid employers. The big money these days is in finance, insurance, and information not manufacture. Apple make more money than US Steel ever did.

I'm particularly conscious of change because my career was spent in computing where nothing remained stable for long, but the same extraordinary forces have ripped into many other aspects of British life. Shipbuilding, Coal Mining, Heavy Industry, Manufacturing, Chemicals, Railways and the High Street once dominated the economy. Not now.

Of course there are still hands-on jobs in Transport, Maintenance, Building and Agriculture but even there the trend is towards mechanisation. Things are replaced rather than mended. Modern workers are wanted to do brainwork on short-term contracts, possibly working from home, rather than spending 45 years in the same job. Like it or not it's a world that favours intellectual rather than practical skills. Not much call for Saggar Makers, Doffers, Datals, Tea Ladies and Ordinary Seamen. And people can be trained to do manual work if necessary. Being good at office work isn't safe either; artificial intelligence is starting to make inroads amongst the pen-pushers.

My view is that our education system is far from perfect. Nonetheless it's output is better attuned to what's likely to happen next than the curriculum of a 1950's style Secondary Modern teaching woodwork! The latter was good at the time: not now.

Bad idea to criticise a youngster face to face relative to the achievements of previous generations. If you push too hard, they're likely to forget politeness and put you right with a vengeance. Silly old granddad, no way would he ever pass a job interview.

Last week I suddenly realised it wasn't the 31st of February.

Made myself feel better by sneering at my Telecomms apprentice nephew because he doesn't even know what a 6V6 is. Can you believe it? No point in understanding 3G/4G interworking without knowing about beam tetrodes is there...

Dave

When I served my apprenticeship, the sparky's dept had a button on their counter with sign saying "do not press". Many an idiot pressed it unbeknown to them the button consisted of two contacts and when you pressed it you got a healthy wallop of electricity! Albeit with no amps.

Is society becoming more stupid

Huh. What'd they teach y'at school? Ya didn't even remember the question mark.

I think people are becoming very lazy and relying on technology rather than using ther brain and common sense. They blindly believe whatever the computer tells them.

An A4 sign in the local Halfords. "AdBlue is not a substitute for engine oil."

No, but it's a substitute for poor engineering!

Re the 'Fallacy of Composition' post from Dave (SoD) earlier. I used to like watching the Discovery/Nat Geo series on Air Crashes, or whatever title it went under, until one day I was sat watching it with the missus. (OK, we all like different things!), when the missus said 'why are the pilots of these aeroplanes all highly experienced'?

After that as we watched each episode, we both began waiting until the commentator said something like 'and Captain Bloggs had 23 years experience of flying this type of aircraft'. - it always happened. Then we noticed the plane was a Boeing 737 in a large proportion of the cases, and somehow it always seemed to belong to one of two particular American airlines.

The only logical conclusion we could make is if you must fly, don't use that airline, don't go if its a 737, and ensure the pilot is a rank beginner!

Once we realised this, watching the program became a no-no.

I was Scout leader for many years (no sicko comments please) and I can assure you that today's young people are perfectly capable of looking after themselves and sorting out a week's camp once they have comprehended that:

We have arrived in a field miles from anywhere with a load of camping gear

The adults are not going to do it for you

If you don't get your tent erected and a cooking fire lit you are going to have a long, cold, hungry night.

They never failed, the older ones who had been before took charge and order would emerge from chaos. Yes we would have sorted it out had it all gone pear shaped, but it never did. The only hindrance to this process was if we made the mistake of taking a parent with us. On several occasions I had lads coming and asking me to send his dad home as he was an embarassment.

I reckon bemoaning modern youth is a sign of old age, and if thety are pampered, who's fault is it?

Thank you Duncan - I totally agree.

Basically because they have to have a huge amount of experience befiore you can pilot an airliner. Wikipedia:

Airline Transport Pilot

Airline Transport Pilots (ATPs) must be at least 23 years old and have a minimum of 1,500 hours of flight time, including 500 hours of cross-country flight time, 100 hours of night flying, and 75 hours in actual or simulated instrument flight conditions. ATPs must also have a commercial certificate and an instrument rating. ATPs may instruct other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft in which they are rated. ATPs must have a current Class I medical exam (which is more stringent than Class II or Class III), which must be renewed every six months or one year (depending on age). Like all pilots, they must re-validate their certificates every 24 months with a flight review.

SoD Dave, if you are going to include " Saggar Makers " you ought to have included "Bottom Knockers" too !
DaveD

With all due respect that is not my experience. I know for a fact that the standards required for entry to professional levels in my industry at least has fallen ( I still have the college notes from when i was a student!!)

After I retired I was asked to return & get involved in training some of the younger degree students.I was really up for this & set up a schedule that i thought would really give them some useful help

I had situations where I had to get a female colleague take a 20 year old into a separate room because he was crying. ( there were others!!). I had one idiot ( 2nd year degree)who thought 10% of 100-00 was 3-00 I had one 20 year old who claimed I was bullying him but he was so immature it was unbelievable & another who could not use a tape to measure a window about 3 metres wide. Their Saturdays were spent loafing, watching TV or playing computer games. No interest in life whatsoever. There were about 12 of them & I only found one who was any good (& he was really good so I had him pushed up the promotion tree very quickly)

Out sailing club has cadet training for about 40 kids in sailing dinghies. Some are so slow ( victims of molycoddling) you would not believe it. They have minimal ability to drive themselves (not all I accept- some are brilliant) they just do not have the ability to work things out for themselves & apply any practical thought. That has to be the failing of computer technology that removes the old method of learning. If daddy does not rig their boat & they are not supplied with the best wet suit they are lost.

As kids years ago some of our old members just went & got on with it in jumpers & shorts in any weather & definitely had more fun & were mentally/socially far more aware. They were certainly far more independent.

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 09/03/2018 21:25:15

Meunier, you forgot, 'Ockle Cockle ' makers too.

There are kids like here in the past but mainly in Far Eastern societies.

Incidentally it is where our wealth migrates.

Plainly speaking Western societies are old , tired, turning decadent and yes - failing.

Insistence that everything must be safe produced environment where nothing can be done and "equal rights for all" culture in practice means "all rights for the stupid". This situation cannot go for too long before substantial loss of wealth and influence have occurred. We are already noticing it.

Healthy development of knowledge and personal responsibility does require that 1-3 kids in 100 get drowned, electrocuted, blow themselves up but rather alone in the fields while experimenting and not in crowded area for religious reason, chop off finger in the lathe etc.

Culture of safety nazizm is largerly preventing accidents like those mentioned above but this 1-3% are still lost to substance abuse, street violence, mindless operation of vehicle etc. Overall outcome in numbers is about the same but we are nurturing society of the stupid.

Martin

Edited By Martin Dowing on 10/03/2018 06:33:50

Edited By Martin Dowing on 10/03/2018 06:37:26