TOOLING SURVEY

I'm not surprised that pre-ground HSS gets such a low score. Maybe I have been unlucky, but all of those I have bought have at least needed sharpening before use, and some have had to be completely re-ground. The penalty for buying cheap items, I guess.

Thank you Neil, I may have changed the statistics now

Brian

I know this is just a test of forum capability but Neil's comment shows how careful you have to be designing questionnaires and interpreting results. The question wasn't 'who uses', it was 'what do you prefer?' That's a big difference.

'Prefer' is also dodgy : I 'prefer' HSS for some jobs and 'prefer' Carbide for others. Once in a Blue Moon I 'prefer' to use pre-ground HSS. Should the question have been "Which form of lathe tooling do you use most often"? (Depends on the purpose of the questionnaire. I bet my suggestion's wrong too!)

Extracting information from the results is fraught with danger as well. I have a theory that experienced chaps with older lathes prefer HSS because they have grinding skills and slow lathes. Newcomers with new lathes prefer carbide inserts because they don't have grinding skills but do have fast lathes. It's quite hard to think of a series of questions to prove or disprove my theory, and all too easy to go astray.

During the 1950s it was discovered that there was a strong correlation between rising violent crime and the number of television sets sold. Obviously TV causes violent crime. Or not - the same correlation existed between crime rates and the sale of Washing Machines. Obviously violent crime is caused by clean underwear. Yet another correlation between Lead in the environment from Petrol and violent crime.  Hard to work out which conclusion is genuine, in this example probably they are all false.

I was involved in a questionnaire where 65% of computer users said they were 'Fully Satisfied' with a new feature. Which was surprising because it failed acceptance testing and wasn't switched on. Goodness knows what customers were actually 'Fully Satisfied' with!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 09/02/2018 10:27:17

I made the switch 5 or 6 years ago when I got a bigger lathe. I'd say 90% of the time I now use carbide insert or solid carbide. HSS really only gets used for parting off and form tools.

I think its down to convenience and the very cheap cost of insert tools and tips.

Jim

Carrying on from SOD Dave:

Some years ago, statistics showed that 10% of all road accidents occurred at speeds greater than 70 mph. That would mean it is safer to drive at speeds of more than 70 mph, because only 10% of accidents happen then.

Statistics can prove anything you want.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Statistics also tell you that most people die in bed.

Jerry

What is tangential HSS? Am I missing out on something good? Twelve percent of users, who expressed a preference, said their machine centres preferred it. Is this the new, must have accessory for 2018 or am I, as usual, the last one to know?

Tangential tools use conventional bars of HSS (high speed steel) in a clamp, but where the 'standard' tooling has the HSS bar horizontal, with the tangential type the bar is held almost vertically. This simplifies grinding tools as the near-vertical face provides one of the important clearance angles. The angle in this case is set by the design of the clamp - a vertical tool would have no clearance on this face, so the out-of-vertical provides the clearance.

On the right of the column where you are reading this there is an advert from 'Eccentric Engineering' - a look at their web-site will show clearly how their clever system works.

I don't know how old the idea is - my guess is that it has been around for years.

Hope this helps

Tim

Well given that much less than 10% of journeys happen at speeds greater than 70 mph you'd be wrong. Drawing glib conclusions isn't "using statistics" to "prove" anything. Other than perhaps something about the commentator....

Murray

Most of the time, I use a tangential type tool, in the Lathe. So that is obviously my main preference.

Kenelm Lee Guiness (The inventor of and proprietor of KLG sparking plugs, back in the '20s) apparently used to drive through cross roads at 60 mph. He claimed that you were in the danger area for a shorter time!

All sorts of different conclusions can be drawn from the same set of figures. Just depends which axe you are seeking grind.

"Tea, (or whatever other beverage you prefer) must be poisonous; because everyone who drinks it eventually dies".

On the other hand, without a regular, adequate, fluid intake you will die.

Which thought process is illogical?

A sense of proportion, and Common Sense, are not that common.

Winston Churchill was quoted as saying that "There are liars, damned liars, and statisticians"

Howard

I don't know about whether it causes violent crime, but lead is definitely bad for you. The body has no mechanism to dispose of it. So i'm glad theres less of it in the air, regardless.

I don't know any blokes who fought over lead! They might've had a few pints though!

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 09/02/2018 15:40:45

Just a quick Q' Why does the Tangential HSS show up as number of votes and the rest as a % ?

Oldiron, I don't think it does, currently shows as 12% with total votes 171 underneath

John

Dohh OK thanks John. Didn't spot the location correctly. (not the first time and probably not the last)

regards

My wife, as a market researcher, sometimes (it was all the rage ten years ago) has to ask people 'If 'product x' came to life, how would you feel about them?' Choose from the likes of 'it would be my best friend' and other stomach-churning options.

Although maybe we should ask it about people's lathes...

Neil

Tim Stevens wonders how long tangential tooling has been around.

In the late 1960s we used a roller chipstream box on Herbert pre-op capstans.The tipped tool was held at the same angle as the aussie one.15 thou from the corner and a 15thou land on the cutting edge a vee on a diagonal hand ground and the feed rate was unbelievable you needed pliers to break the swarf and the cut could take 1/2" off the diameter.

I feel tangential tooling or the general idea of it may be as old as the first lathes ever used .

Posted by Tim Stevens on 09/02/2018 12:37:36:

I recently saw a parting off tool like that and thought what a good idea, but then I wondered how it would stand up to a hammering from anything out of round. Didn't know it was tangential. I actually made one about 10 years ago to get a set pointy angle from a normal Eclipse HSS blank. Never finished that machine, but if you gathered together all the machines I haven't finished you would understand my workshop

Appreciate the explanation

Robin

I really think it’s time the Tangential tool was highlighted again in MEW. Cheap to run, easy to sharpen and quick to set to centre height, what’s not to like.

With regard to Tangential tooling, I came across a picture some time ago of a Carboloy tangential tool that used round carbide bits.

My copy of this is my most used general purpose tool. It has all the same benefits as the usual square HSS designs , but requires less sharpening. The carbide I use is the shank of a broken 3mm end mill.

So, which section do I cast my vote?

Dave
The Emerald Isle