Lathe shocks

Hi

There is only one possible way to render the machine safe. It needs the correct plug to be properly fitted. a Plug the complies with the local regulations that are no doubt in place. The use of an adaptor is dangerous as it allows the same machine to be used without an adaptor as well.

What would happen if in the unlikely (SIC), event of another person using the machine, what if that person plugged the machine into another power point without the adaptor and was electrocuted.

Apart from the human tragedy that this could cause, knowingly leaving a machine in an unsafe condition would place the owner in a very difficult position, the state may have a more definite view on the consequences.

Regards
John

Can someone from England help me with a linguistic problem. How do you call something which brings you to tear out the rest of your meagre hairs? In my language I know something which I could loosely translate as "I could p*ss hair oil!" Would be nice if I could learn some original sentences in English.

Now back to the problem which results in the above. I cannot understand why someone can be so stubborn and flatly refuses to grab a side cutter and remove that unusable plug. Then scratch away the insulation and mount the correct plug, that needs only a screwdriver.

Just a couple of weeks ago I bought a German appliance and had to do just that. And I cannot tell how many times I did that in my life... Well I admit I own a multimeter and am able to check which wire has to go into which hole.

/rant, and regards

Frank

It's a not uncommon attitude among some here who it seems will go to any lengths to make-do or re-use instead of taking the simple, obvious, straightforward (and in this case, I guess you could add "infinitely less dangerous"  ) approach.

You just have to look at one of the several threads that have occurred over the years involving substitutes for a surface plate - when new, small plates suitable for home workshop use are available quite inexpensively and even with their limited, Far-East spec. would way out-perform most of the suggested alternatives.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 04/08/2015 01:27:53

Although many here do this, it is actually illegal here to do any electrical job to do with mains if you don't have an electrician certificate.

As far as being less dangerous, I had three (if I remember) highliy recommended electrcians do jobs for me in the past similar to this... and all of them failed! Either soldering failed or a screw dug into a soldered wire gripped with an "ender" (that's how we call it here, not sure how it's called in English), so it got loose inside a plug. I had to redo them myself to be reliable, but they didn't have anything to do with mains. If one of those times was the lathe plug then it would be infinitely more dangerous...

I would still consider it and probably ask an electrician to come and check everything anyway.

BTW the lathe won't be used by anyone else or moved to be used elsewhere.

Edited By Nitai Levi on 04/08/2015 05:33:30

Nital, has anybody been prosecuted for fitting a plug in your country ? BobH

Nitai,

For reasons already mentioned by yourself and others

1. I would NOT use an "adapter"
2. Yes it is probably a good idea to keep the moulded-on plug.
3. I would NOT faff-about with a loose "earth pin"

I think that leaves one obvious option, as yet unmentioned;

• a good quality plug to fit your socket
• a good quality socket to fit the lathe plug
• connected with a length of suitable wiring

If you are not happy making this adapter lead yourself, then surely you could find a qualified contractor to make it. ... Given that it would involve no modification to the domestic wiring, or the lathe, and could be made off-site ... it should be reasonably priced.

MichaelG.

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P.S. ... For convenient reference here are the pictures that Martin Perman linked on the first page of this thread.

Quote: [with my emphasis added]

Type H : "socket compatible with plug types C & H (unsafe compatibility with E & F)"

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Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/08/2015 08:53:18

Hi Nitai

To be safe the socket must follow the local regulations, do not try to match the socket. match the plug to the local approved code socket.

Oh and make sure you have an earth and that the neutral wire is connected to the correct side of the plug.

I have no Idea of the way plugs are wired in your area. The following link will give you some idea of the various ways a plug and socket may be wired. and the pitfalls.

This link is not intended to show you how to do a particular job.

**LINK**

You must know the local electric wiring code or get help from a professional.

Regards
John

> Would be nice if I could learn some original sentences in English.

Perhaps this 'can of worms' belongs on a separate (heavily censored) Workshop Esperanto thread?

> Although many here do this, it is actually illegal here to do any electrical job to do with mains if you don't have an electrician certificate.

In the UK (often portrayed as the ultimate nanny state) they teach schoolchildren how to change plugs. People will do it - better they know how to do it properly. They are even relaxing the accursed 'Part P' to allow more domestic jobs to be carried out by homeowners.

If fitting a wire into a screwed or crimped fitting it should NOT be soldered. The solder makes it more likely to fracture and prevents the 'cold welding' that improves security and electrical contact.

Neil

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Gentlemen

I am quoting this early post from Nitai, because it raises another interesting point:

[Ignoring for the moment the fact that the lathe is not being earthed] ... By using the plug upside down, he has effectively swapped Live and Neutral connections. This may be causing unexpected behaviour in the lathe electronics. ... I know little about these effects [except that I have heard them on audio equipment] and would appreciate comment from our electronics experts.

MichaelG.

The most dangerous thing here, quite apart from his refusal to get proper help, is the fact that there is earth leakage current on his lathe.

Left unchecked it could potentially kill him.

Get that sorted out first by a competant electrician and stop all this guessing!

Modern safety standards require that both live and neutral are considered to be live as far as safety is concerned. For that reason single pole mains switches went out (almost) with the arc. Safety testing requires that insulation tests are performed from both live and neutral to exposed metal parts.

Equally there will be no problem with the electronics.

Russell.

The level of leakage he is talking about is quite normal. It is due to the capacitance between the live parts and the metalwork. Probably including interference suppression filters that are required to meet the EMC Directive.

If the leakage was more severe it would have blown a fuse or the earth leakage trip when the earth pin was connected.

Russell.

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Accidental or deliberate pun, Russell ?

MichaelG.

I know a kitchen installer who has told me several scare stories about what they find done by 'qualified' part-p electricians. The new rules have meant penny b-pinchers sending idiots on courses while the competent amateur is penalised. Latest is a gas fitter - sacked for blanking a pipe with a gland nut with a 20p piece stuck in it!

Neil

The only problem with using an adapter is finding the correct type. Ones that take the earth connection through are rare and for obvious reasons rather substantial. The company that provided one to me also sold to industry.

No so good in my opinion are the plugs that are beginning to appear where part clips on to suit various countries.

I'm surprised Israel don't allow people to fit plugs. I thought all countries did. Maybe we should all stock up in the UK in case the same happens here. Going on some used items I have bought in the past where some one has fitted a plug it might happen.

One easy way to see if people can fit plugs themselves is looking to see if DIY stores sell them.

John

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Gee....

What can I say? there is a safety issue and yet the bodge job of using a totally naff adaptor is still being discussed.

I am speechless, well not quite... However what I would like to say is not printable here.

Regards
John

There was an explosion in some flats by us a few years ago. Gas fitter sent to prison - the supervisor that told him what to do scot free as far as I am aware.

We had a new meter fitted recently. The fitter gave me a little preprinted piece of paper about earth bonding the pipes at the meter. He has to leave them more or less where ever he goes. He reckoned with 6mm cable. As bonding was talked about via the IEE a very long time before it became fact I asked if the alternative that was discussed was possible 1m local copper earth spike. Seems it is.

John

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Trouble is, the 1p pieces aren't made of copper any more; just plated steel.

.... actually it's worse than that, because even 20p pieces have changed from 'nickel silver' to plated steel [or some other magnetic material] .

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/08/2015 14:02:09

Perhaps you could post a photograph of the naff adapter you are referring to,

John

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