warco lathes.

10 days on and a new motor and circuit board are here but no wiring, even though i said all the wires were melted they want me to use the old harness...... not acceptable !!!

any conversation starts with a big sigh !! 

they don't return calls !!

now waiting for a reply again

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 24/04/2017 16:05:33

So you had a motor and a speed board fail on you and the whole kit managed to melt the wiring to boot?

Sounds to me like the machine is incorrectly fused!

I strongly recommend you reduce the value of the fuse in the plug when you come to switch on....

Hi john

13 amp plug 13 amp fuse as supplied new

I am sure anything lower would blow on startup

The whole power cable earth along with other earthing wires inside the circuit board box have all got so hot the insulation has melted & Burnt

no fuses blew and no trips went on the machine

something has obviously shorted the mains directly to ground

The main circuit breaker in the garage tripped out and cut the power were it not for this I could have been electrocuted or had my garage burn down

It's now gone 5pm and my call hasn't been returned again !!

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 24/04/2017 17:03:53

Edited By Antony Powell on 24/04/2017 17:07:26

Hi Tony,
Did the fuse in the plug not blow ? Were you doing any arc welding near the lathe at the time (Or just before) the fault occured ? It seems like the fault current was greater than the current that would blow a 13 amp plug fuse so I was wondering if there was some other source of a very large current such as some welding that was being done had picked it's earth return up from the lathe rather than the earth cable from the welder.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 24/04/2017 18:24:49

Tony's description of the fault is quite worrying. Fuses are designed to blow before wires melt. I'm finding it hard to imagine a fault in the lathe capable of causing those symptoms. As Les suggests, is something else involved?

Is it possible that the garage is wired incorrectly? If Live and Neutral were reversed in the socket, then the fuse in the plug would be out-of-circuit. Or some kind of earth fault? Might be worth investing in a mains tester.

Given the amount of damage I'd have a look at the wiring inside the socket; it could be burnt too.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 24/04/2017 18:24:43

Edited By Frances IoM on 24/04/2017 19:18:32

The 13 amp fuse is there to protect the mains lead from the socket outlet to the appliance, if the appliance has internal wires with a smaller cross sectional area then they will get hotter than the cables/wires supplying that current and could then burn through their insulation if subjected to a current greater than they can handle but still be below 13 amp.

It is also possible that the machines internal protection failed to cut out the current before things started to melt, once melting/burning perhaps they did kick in, in this scenario, the domestic wiring would not see any overload or short, however it is also not unknown for well regarded brands of consumer unit to have a faulty RCD now and again.

I would certainly echo the suggestion by Frances and get a sparky in to test everything and give it a clean bill of health.

Sadly this does tend to show how hollow the claims of 'off the shelf spares' which are made be the importes of Chinese stuff.

Hi All

In response to the Questions posed...

As I said no fuses or trips on the lathe either blew or tripped out

The RCD on the garage ring main tripped out and shut off the power

No welding had been done in the garage for over a month prior to the fault ocurring

All circuits within the garage are A1, no damage and no faults found, I've had it all checked

Garage was newly wired only three years ago all new complete install it was derelict without power prior to my purchase of the property, all work done by Qualified & Experienced tradesmen using top quality materials.

All other tools & machinery continues to work fine after the incident

The electrician was not impressed with the quality of the machines internal wiring !!

Cables bent double and crammed up tightly against the METAL casing , Trapped & Untidy routing of cables,

just for starters

It has also been noted that the new circuit board has different components fitted compared to the old one

I'm not impressed with the attitude of Warco they don't seem to be overly interested, they don't return calls' they don't seem to do anything quickly, when they answer the telephone the way the do, I can't see me dealing with them in the future....I was sold this Lathe with a full 12 month warranty, which is now parts only after six months

I agree with Ian's general sentiment of "cheap foreign imports"

This is really starting to bug me now I paid almost £3000 for a lathe i can't use and nobody's in any hurry to get it fixed and they expect me to either pay for the labour to have it repaired or do it myself.

Not Impressed by either the quality of either machine or service in the slightest !!!

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 24/04/2017 21:55:47

Tony.

I wonder if you have considered contacting your local Trading Standards Office for advice?

The number should be available online or via your Local Council or Citizens Advice Bureau.

V8.

Don't forget a 13A fuse will carry 13 amps indefinitely, it needs 20+ amps to blow a 13A fuse quickly.

Neil

.

Tony,

I thoroughly agree ... but I did feel obliged to have a look at Warco's Terms & Conditions:

**LINK**

http://www.warco.co.uk/content/3-terms-and-conditions-of-use

1.  
2.  
3.  
4. A 12 months warranty is supplied from delivery date. For UK mainland customers, first six months of warranty to include parts and our labour costs. For customers outside UK mainland, first six months warranty to include parts only. At our discretion warranty work during the first six months will be carried out on the customer's premises or the goods will be returned to our works at our cost and re-delivered at our cost. Second six months warranty is parts only, delivered at our cost.

.

It may not be what we would consider reasonable ... but it is clearly stated.

.

Given your description of the wiring though; I'm with V8Eng ... This is not really a matter for Warranty Claims; it is a matter that needs to be referred to Trading Standards [if only for the safety of others].

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/04/2017 23:56:00

It's highly unlikely a component failure would result in a short to ground, other than a lead or some other connection coming loose.

I destroyed a controller board on my lathe when a long 'snake' of swarf entered through the hole for the leadscrew (newer versions of my lathe have a rubber grommet here) and shorted the supply to earth.

The source of the original short ought to be evident with charring or other damage. Are you able to identify a loose supply wire or stray swarf?

Neil

.

This thought did also occur to me. (so long as it seems the customers electrical supply is A1) As this may have turned into a fire.

I may be wrong on this point, but are 'terms and conditions' often over ruled by the supply of goods act.??

Lastly. Is there something we are not being told of / aware of here about all this.?? It seems incredible (to me) that Warco would be so dismissive and have their name branded as mud upon a widely read forum such as this without good reason. Do they not have a presence on here like Keatan of ARC does. I doubt he would have let this get to this stage without comment.!

Lastly,,,, lastly. I hope this issue gets sorted for you.

Nick

Nick,

I think this would be the most relevant legislation

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents

.

It's also worth looking at this guidance for Suppliers [from Trading Standards Wales]

http://www.tradingstandardswales.org.uk/templates/asset-relay.cfm?frmAssetFileID=80

This paragraph is probably pertinent:

MichaelG.

I would hate to say it (as I do own one), but I think they make far too much to care, the advert on the magazine/web would be all the PR they need, they have been around for a longwhiles and probably make most of their gains from shows and word-of-mouth, hell maybe even a few colleges have warco's sitting in them.

That said, I have never had any reason to dislike them, their spares department have been far better to me than Clarke ever were, I think it's luck of the draw on who happens to take your order most of the time.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 25/04/2017 01:35:04

It's the lack of urgency and the loud sigh when they answer the telephone that annoys the most, it's like they just don't want to know about it !!

I'm afraid like most people the longer it drags on the more annoyed, nit picky, Wound up etc I get

To me there is no question that the problem starts and ends with the lathe as any and all damage is (luckily) contained within the lathe itself.

If a piece of swarf could cause this sort of damage then the item is not fit for purpose (you obviously expect swarf on a lathe)

As for the warranty I was verbally told A full 12 month warranty with no mention of it turning to parts only after 6 months (in front of a witness who is an retired county court employee), which trumps their terms according to citizens advise.As it becomes part of the terms you buy under.

When you buy any item you never read the small print and expect that a warranty is for 12 months its the most common assumption everyone makes and if the courts get involved that's the basis they work upon , what the common man would think or expect is reasonable, if you pay £3000 for something you expect it to be worth £3000 you don't expect it to fail dramatically after 8 months and barely 20 hours of use

Buy the way Which says... The Sale of Goods Act 1979 has now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act, but you may be able to claim under it if goods you bought on or before 30 September 2015 become faulty

At the end of the day all I want is what i paid for a lathe that works and doesn't short out !!

tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:26:33

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:28:08

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:34:21

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:34:49

I have just called Warco again as they failed to return my call yesterday....

After i gave them the option of a replacement or a refund

They are collecting the lathe and refunding me !!

Next question what do I replace it with ??

tony

I have read through this thread again and it looks like it is only the earth conductor that has got hot and melted the insulation. Here are some points to consider.

1 The three cores in the mains cable between the 13 amp plug and the machine will all have the same cross sectional area so if the fault current would have also have to pass through the live conductor. (Or the neutral conductor if there was some supply fault causing a reasonable potential difference between neutral and earth AND there was a short between neutral and earth in the machine.) So if the fault current was enough to melt the insulation on the earth conductor then why did it not melt the insulation on the live (Or neutral) conductor ?

2 As the circuit is fed via an RCD any current greater than 30 mA for more than about 40 mS should have caused the RCD to trip long before the wires became hot enough to melt the insulation.

3 Could the insulation on the earth conductor heve been melted prior to the RCD tripping and shorted to live or neutral because it was damaged causing the RCD to trip.

Les.

I was about to make a similar point to Les. I don't understand what could cause the symptoms as I've understood them from Tony's description.

I've read quite a lot on the web about electrical faults in Chinese workshop equipment and this is the first I've seen featuring a burnt out harness and mains cable. It's very interesting: I wonder if we could impose on Tony for some photographs of the damage? They might save someone else from repeating Tony's bad experience.

As to Warco, although they haven't covered themselves in customer-service glory this time, they do seem to have honoured the warranty in full. Replacement parts were provided on the 14th of April and they agreed to a full refund on 25th.

If a new Chinese lathe is off the menu, I suppose Tony will either have to buy second-hand or triple his budget. Nothing's ever easy is it!

Dave

.

A good result for you, Tony

... and probably expedient for Warco.

MichaelG.