New workshop - your recommendations

As to placing machines, I put my lathe with its back to the wall below a south-facing garage window, which gets the sun (if any!) until 3 or 4pm. I've moved it now; it was hard to see what I was doing because of the brightness above and behind the lathe, particularly in the winter when the sun was low in the sky. If I were building a shop from scratch, I'd be tempted to forget about a window in the wall, and go for roof lights only. Less chance of malefactors seeing what lies within, and would give a bit more wall space to hang things on.

Andy

Make sure it is easy to see and access the changewheels quadrant when siting the lathe.My newish workshop is self-built and I arranged it so that the doorway is next to that end of my lathe and that the door protects anyone unexpectedly walking into a possibly rotating barstock if I forget to bolt the door! It also makes good use of the wasted space by the door Colin

When I extended my workshop to house my lathe, I doubled the depth of concrete, and increased the amount of reinforcing in the area that the lathe was to stand, it's been through 3 or 4 major earth quakes, and about 15,000 after shocks, the lathe has not moved, proberbly luck. One thing I didn't do, and should have, is paint the floor. Maybe I should have insulated the walls too, but I'v had no great problem there. One thing I did do, and they need replacing, is, I installed fibre glass transparent roof panels on the north side(your south). Ian S C

When I moved my workshop into a brand new shed I built the normal bench, with a braced leg under the vice, which was 2' deep. So to match thre depth of the bench top I built new drawers also 2' deep. Most were partitioned so there was a front half for tools often used, the rear for tools too good to throw away. All were built by cutting, 3" X 19mm into the require lengths, straight screwing through the fronts and backs into the end grain of the side members (naughty!!). These then had plywood bottoms glued and nailed on. To fit them to the bench, I chose the crude way of putting in 1" X1" bits of wood to carry the drawers. Metal angle is much better (more slippery?), but the gap between the top and bottom of the drawers is a gap of 1", so the odd screwdriver handle poaking up does not jam the drawers.

For my hammer/mallet storage, I choose to make a series of pigeon holes to carry one item each, with steel plates, so the hammers can be slid in or out easily. Putting them on the walls seems a waste of wall space.

Given that I have 16' X 10' = 160 sqft of floor area, I would have preferred 20' X 8' = 160 sq ft., The extra 2' in the centre would only be useful, if I was working on some thing really big 3" scale traction engine? In my previous shed, I had partitioned off the last 2" across the end and just used it as a store for materials, so i had to siddle into it, bexause it had shelving across the end further reducing access. with the longer length there is more wall length for more machines (or longer ones?)

I have seen one natty idea for sweeping the shed out, it was a trap in the floor which had a long drawere fitted in it , accessed from out side. so open the trap, sweep every thing into it and close the trap, go outside pull the drawer out and empty it into the dustbin.. I did not use this idea as i thought stuffing thr under floor cavity with glass fibre would be a better idea.

The roof construction looked a little skimpy to me so I put in ties between the wall unrights, each of these were then loaded with 50 Kg of sandbags then tightly fitting props fitted to the roof purins, then the sandbags removed. One of the ties also served as a support for my mini travelling crane for handling the various heads for the milling machine.

Frank

If you have a wooden door to the workshop you could fit one of those little spy-ball thingeys that will allow you to see what is going on in the outside world, front or rear. They are cheap and easy to fit and no-one can see in.

Our garage is a prefab concrete deal with asbestos roof, the Thing I would most change about it is the fact that the above head storage is non existant, because the small angle iron cross braces easily bend with any weight on and make the roof bow. If your ever likely to want storage overhead then you will have to think about this before construction as our prefab concrete panels are only bolted together and although it serves well it is limiting factor with regards to metal storage etc.

Also Run some Cat 5 network cable whilst you've dug up the trench for power or you will regret it if you use a CNC machine or want any kind of connectivity, and wifi just wont reach.

Water for cooling / drinking / quenching?

Also doorways are a consideration for garages / workshops will you ever need to get something big in or out that wont fit through normal doors? -probably likely, Maybe you could get some cheap roller shutter doors from an old shop / garage / industrial place.

Compressed air, do you use it often? would it be an idea to run static piping instead of wrestleing rubber hoses every time you get the compressor out?

I would suggest putting a earth wire from ALL metal machinery to a good earthing clamp... Its not uncommon for a static build up to occur where friction is involved... A belt of static can be far more dangerous than sticking a finger in a socket.

Rick

John,

You don't say what sort of floor you'll be having, but I assume it will be concrete. When we had our new garage built, I tiled the whole lot (30 square metres!), common practice out here in France. Mind you, you have to be careful in your selection of tiles so as not to get ones that are "slippery when wet"! I found out the hard way! I use a piece of off-cut carpet in front of the machines for comfort underfoot (and to catch a lot of the swarf)! A quick go with the wet and dry Vax soon sorts that out. You can just see a bit of the tiling in one of my album photos soon after installation of the mill.

I'd second all the tips regardng insulation. I don't have enough and there's an annoying gap at the bottom of the garage door where the wind whistles through. On the plus side, I'm a dab hand at rust removal!

Good luck,

John H.

From a purely practical viewpoint, I'm increasingly convinced it make sense to live in the workhsop and move the tools into the house. A much better use of space, and the loo and kettle are much easier to get to. Anm 8x16 garage or shed should be big enough for the distaff side's requirements, just make sure it is nice and warm!

Neil

On another forum my posts were removed for even mentioning my books, even though the subject had initially been raised by another, as selling was not allowed on the forum. I think I am safe here though.

My book "The Metalworkers Workshop" covers the subject of setting up and equiping a workshop. Of course, with only 160 pages it is brief in some aspects. There is also a version published in the US having the same title.

For more details see here **LINK**

Harold

Neil,

Your comments remind of the member of a club who did just that.

Every room, except one bedroom, had its fair share of machines installed.

One room had a commercial riveter in it, which tended to upset the neighbours when used at night!

Geoff - Two bedrooms converted into HobbyRoom & Office

I question the use of fluorescent lights with rotating machinery.

Jerry

Please lets not drag this subject up again, it's been beat to death over the years.

If any of this helps anyone, I offer the following details of my shop; (sorry to be SO wordy).

The one thing that I got wrong was to mount the workshop on slabs on sand/cement.

With 20/20 hindsight I would have had a concrete base, probably with steel reinforcing mesh.

1) CONSTRUCTION.

After very protracted negotiations with the Head Chef/Gardener etc, the maximum allowable size was 10'9" x 6'9" (NO WAY could the Bay Tree be re located, nor the Patio Wall!).

To provide headroom above the Mill Drill, the external height was 8 feet, sloping down to 7'6" at the rear. (Guttering takes the rain into a butt which helps cheer the Head Chef/Gardener etc a little).

For security, it has no windows, (I would only have covered them with shelves anyway).

The door is a fire door, the weight of which required 100mm x 50mm framing at that end, with a 6 lever lock, and three home made hinge bolts (see later). This is set, slightly off centre, (to align one edge of the frame with the front edge of the Fitting Bench,) in the 6'9" wall nearest to the back door of the house.

All wood construction, the framework is 50mm sq, with 19mm external cladding, and fibreglass insulation covered by 12mm ply internal cladding.

The roof is similar construction coverd by underfelt and good quality top felt , bitumen bonded to the timber. Nails only used to secure the capping strip around the edges.

The external walls are painted every two or three years with two or three coats of a water based preservative

2) Flooring.

The basic floor is 18mm ply, supported by 5 off 8" x 2" bearers, running the length of the shop. The centre two were spaced so as to admit the legs of a folding crane for machine entry.

I was lucky enough to be given some ex industry plastic mats with which to cover the "central" area of the floor.

These sit on top of some 15mm chipboard.

Similar, but in rubber was available from Toys r Us, at £18 for a 1 metre square. (MUCH cheaper than buying Industrial matting from folk like Cromwell Tools).

3) Electrics

Not REALLY the best!

Fed from a RCD in the Utility Room via flat 2 core and earth cable (What I would call 14/029).

There are eleven metal clad double sockets (One of which contains a filter, to prevent anything nasty from the thyristor invertor for the lathe from upsetting our house, or anyone else in the locality connected to the same phase) connected on a ring main.

It is MOST unlikely that I would use two machines at the same time, as well as a Fan Heater, so no problems anticipated, or seen, with current draw.

(A Brennenstuhl monitor, never shows the invertor for the 1.5 hp motor on the lathe drawing much more than a couple of amps. On a heavy cut, or a very rare dig in; the belts will slip).

Lighting

All fed, quite incorrectly, from sockets!

Two 5 foot fluorescents on the ceiling (the second, switch fed off the first when needed).

A worklight over the Fitting Bench and Bench Grinder, now with an LED lamp.

Two worklights, one each side of the Mill Drill, fitted with LED lamps.

(The worklights came, as you might guess, from the scrapyard at work, and merely needed cleaning up)

The 24 volt Halogen supplied with the lathe. (Modified by filing two 5/16" slots on the outer edge of the "reflector" to improve ventilation. Since then, the appetite for 24V 50W lamps - which are seen as frequently as hens teeth, has ceased).

Benches

Lathe Bench - Actually some ex supermarket wharehouse staging, standing on heavy angle iron to spread the load. Originally was supposed to be levelled by M10 setscrews, but so rigid that the rear leg at one end lifted in unison with the front one. This necessitated a rethink on the lathe mountings! The lathe now rests on three heavy angle iron cross bearers, which are supported by welded on angle irons resting on the 3 x1.5 inch lateral beams of the staging.

Fitting Bench, Steel topped, box section frame, bought from the scrapyard at work, 60 x 30 inches, but cut down to 18 inches wide and rewelded.

Mill/Drill is on 60 x 30 inch deep steel topped angle iron bench, (again ex works scrapyard) but cut and spliced to fit between the wall and the chip tray of the lathe (which slightly overlaps the end). Beneath are wooden drawers containing, in a jumble, tools like hacksaws, and automotive items that may come in handy one day. The drawers are supported on heavy angle "ladders" , welded to the bench at one end and bolted at the other.

High above the Mill/Drill, on the end wall, is a security light, which will illuminate if the mains supply fails, to allow switching off all electrical items, prior to exit.

Ventilation is by an ex equipment 6" fan fitted high up, between the cladding, and with fixed vents at floor level. Externally, there is a duct over the fan opening, to prevent rain ingress.

Heating, when required is by a thermostatically controlled 2 Kw fan heater,. which only runs for a small percentage of the time, given the insulation. A lot of time, I work with the door open unless it is raining.

Rust is almost unknown, VERY little seen in the ten year life of the shop. Last winter was the first time that any, even very light, was noticed.

Edited By Howard Lewis on 14/09/2013 13:04:53

Home Made Hinge Bolts

These are just long (2 - 3 inch) heavy gauge (10 -12) woodscrews with the heads turned down, or off.

These are driven, one at a time, into a pre drilled pilot hole in the rear edge of the door, by means of a drill chuck, to leave about 1/2 to 3/4 inch protruding.

The door is then partially closed so as to mark the door post for the position of the clearance hole into which the bolt will fit.

The process is repeated for as many other Hinge Bolts that you want to fit.

With a good quality, 5 lever lock, (or Padlock on a hasp that has been coachbolted to the door), the workshop should be fairly secure against the lock being picked, the door forced, or the door being lifted out after the hinge pins have been driven out.

Update:

I have just bought a compressor the other week from MM on one of their VAT free days (usual discl' German model, BT-AC 200/24, & have it fitted with one of MM’s 5 meter spiral coil hoses, its noisy but it packs some wallop on output when I tested, It plus a 2 year guarantee.

Charlie S... was contemplating running a static pipe around the wall myself, but at the mo’ I’m not using the compressor that much, so for now…

Someone mentioned Part P… (John S?) My wiring was fitted in accordance with Part P regulations & accompanied with the appropriate installation, compliance & test certification (home insurance notified to this effect).

Have also put 2 fire extinguishers in there as well, not the large industrial (6Kg) type but 1 kg size home model (also put one in the kitchen to boot!) I have now removed the ugly space blanket from my roller door & will be fitting sheets of kingspan/Celotex to the inside, as the door is 1” integrally insulated I’ll only be fitting the 25mm thickness, so, along with my previous post, I’m more or less done with setting up… he sez!

Cheers

George

Sorry John,

Can I take it that there are no known accidents amongst the model engineering fraternity traceable to that cause?

Jerry

Note. If you bitumen the felt to the roof timber it will be a pain to rework. It took me days to strip the cowboy job on my garage because of this. Cowboy 2 had floated another layer over it probably after seeing the mess from the builders original job. The nailed up first layer allows the wood to move with time and temperature. Wicks feltt and trowel on mastic is great. Don't use the 'torch on' or other gimmick as they skimp on the mastic.

The vapour barrier needs to be on the inside side of the insulation not up against the wall. Make a ventillated air gap between the wall and fibre insulation so that any mositure that gets in from outside can get out again and not get sponged up by the insulation. One way is to use a thin layer 1 inch of polystyrene spaced off by loads of plastic milk bottle tops nailed to the wall. Despite the expense note that Celotex or Kingspan is nearly twice as good per inch as fibreglass.

The chap who built the workshop to my drawings, has an excellent reputation, (Never advertises, satified customers are his sales force) and used bitumen to secure the felt, (No nails equals no possible leakage points) He tells me that a bitumen felt roof can be covered upto four times before total stripping is needed.

So far, mine is ten years old from new and has caused no problems. (You get what you pay for, so he used good quality under and top felt).

Yes, when the roof eventually does need reworking, the bitument will be a PITA to remove, but worth it for the freedom from worries about leakage and the ensuing rust on all my lovely equipment.

(Final reworking probably won't be in my lifetime)

Howard

Some weeks ago I mentioned that I had ordered a new lathe, Warco 280v-F.

Some days later a ordered a new VMC mill, which has now arrived and has been positioned, but I am still awaiting the lathe.

Pictures of the VMC are in my album.Luckily the flooring joists took the load.

JerryNotts