Chinese Lathe Accessories.

Terry

Which, in turn was based largely on the 1930's Atlas lathe.

Russell.

"You are entitled to your opinion but be please get the facts right."

David,

i did not say that RDG sold new Myford lathes. I was referring to New Myford to distinguish RDG,s company from Nottingham Myford.

As KWIL suggests I will give RDG a chance as I hope we all will and then we can assess their performance in the fullness of time.

Hi There

You said it is overpriced.

As it is not for sale new, that is untrue.

regards Davd

David please read my post properly and you will see the comment was a quote from an earlier one by alan smith 6. To signify this I put quotation marks at both ends.

The simple point that I am making concerns the future supply of quality parts for a very popular British product now sadly no longer made.

Sorry Lambton

I did not realise it was a quote.

regards David

What quantities of any given Myford spare are sold each year? It can't be many as you don't wear out a chuck in a year. So not many companies in China are going to be interested in an order for 50 off specials when they can set up once for an order for 10 thousand generic chucks or even a small order for 100 thousand car parts. No chance to make few test pieces to check out the line so if they get it wrong what do you think they are they going to do with the 50 items rejected by RDG?

Hi Lambton,

Arc no longer deserves this credit. Arc has stopped the preparation service for most SIEG machines, in the past two months. Reasons for this are as follows:

During the past 11 months ARC has been observing that customers are demanding lower prices. I for one would insist that these machines are fit for purpose, for the price the hobby engineer wishes to pay. For this point, I gladly welcome legal challenge from anyone who wishes to put money where their mouth is.

I understand and respect the need for lower price, based on budget. However, during this year I have observed language from certain competitors who suggest the following to make a sale: "the reason why ARC offers a preparation service is because their machines are not of good quality. Our machine does not need to be prepared because our machine is of a better grade". This statement is marketing B**S**T. All Chinese machines as received are of similar build and quality when compared like to like. However, when you are new to the hobby, who or what do you believe?

I mentioned this in some other thread a few months ago, after returning from the Harrogate show. At the said show, ARC managed to sell new machines to customers who had bought from us before and were upgrading. We managed to sell new machines to customers who had come by recommendation. However, we did not sell a single machine to any new customers who did not know us. I got to know more clearly about these comments a few months later when some of these people came to us for spares.

So, these are few of the reasons why ARC has stopped the preparation service.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 14/12/2012 16:18:47

Alan, This is a free market, if as you say, some prices are overpriced and some machines over rated,then there will not be sales for such machines if you are correct. However there is still an active second hand market for certain machines for whatever reason, people are prepared to vote with their cash.

Can you still buy spares for a Boxford or indeed for some of these now discontinued chinese imports?

I am often amazed at some of the stick chinese stuff gets on here. It seems to come mostly from folk who regard themselfs as good engineers, if that is the case who better to fix this so called "poor Quailty" . I happen to think it is mostly good value for money. An old saying springs to mind at the moment A POOR WORKMAN ALLWAYS BLAMES HIS TOOLS.

Cheers Derek

Alan (just the once) I have read the thread, every word . Not fit for purpose would sujest to me being sold a volt meter to find a gas leak. Every item of the type you are talking about, that i have bought in recent years has been adequate for model engineering,if not strait from the box, then with a very small amount of finishing. I have been into modelling since the age of eight when i had my first meccano set and i am now 72. I own a Chester DB10VS lathe, a Chester Champion 20 V mill, an Axminster X1 mill with the Arc Euro long bed conversion,a Chester 6x4 bandsaw, a Chester 24"multiformer, do i need to go on? If you would like to see the kind of work produced on these machines then please take a look at the "fibre optic clock" thread. Another old saying has just sprung to mind !!! IF THE CAP FITS WEAR IT.

Cheers Derek.

LOL Derek, nice one.

Ironic that the Boxford so lauded about by Alan is no longer available to the public despite Boxford still being in business.

The same applies to Denford.

The reason being that they will only deal with companies and education. When I spoke to the guy at Denfords over a CNC matter and asked why, the blunt reply was they didn't want to be involved with tyre kickers or another way of putting it is "Persons not fit for purpose "

There is a big difference in modifying something so it suits the way you work and not being fit for purpose.

Take a lathe for instance if it starts, turns parallel plus a few more bits it's fit for purpose. After all that's what a lathe does.

The fact it may have a few burrs, rough edges etc doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose.

End of the day if we all had to wait to own a British machine then many would not be able to take this hobby up. And who's to say that every Myford / Boxford out there is a decent lathe ? I once bought a Super 7 just to get the gearbox off it. It what was absolutly clapped out, never seen one as bad.

However it was a Myford, good British make so it must have been alright, mustn't it ?

I'm a big believer in just as you say something is not "Fit for purpose" it also follows that not every owner is "fit for purpose"

I have know many who I wouldn't trust with a spoon.

I look back in past issues on ME and see some of the things made on Drummond , Winfield, Pooles and Atlas lathes and piss myself laughing when "Fit for purpose" is mentioned.

But then again these were real men.....................................................................

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 15/12/2012 00:12:57

Alan,

I have already given a link to where 1,131, oopps no sorry put 3 more on tonight, so 1,134 photos of my work reside.

I choose to host my own pictures on my own server and not host them on a site like this one I have no control over.

As regards being engaged in model engineering or machinery I can assure you I am, full time 10 to 12 hours per day.

At least people buying new machines are supporting the manufacturers / importers etc and contributing. Second hand sales contribute nothing, Look where it got Myford, at least in my time I did buy two brand new Myfords from the factory or rather one of their agents.

I have also bought a brand new TOS lathe a few years ago which is my daily mainstay, plus at least 6 or 7 Chinese lathes and mills.

Funnily enough EVERYTHING has been "Fit for purpose" whether that is just a fluke or whether it's because I know what it's purpose is I don't know ? I'll leave you to work that one out.

When I started my apprenticeship way back in the early seventies we were taught on Colchester Students / Bantams and Bridgeport R8 mills as the main equipment, when these were taken out of service as BER in the early eighties, we commandeered some of them for our Model club and used them to good effect until we were made redundant in 2001.

Not knowing where my next job was coming from and needing to keep my hobby interests going I bought a GH1330 Lathe and a Super Major milling machine from Warco.

To be honest, both machines are better than I expected, and are virtually in daily use, mostly for garden machinery repairs and odd jobs admittedly. but have just started the R B Gas engine as a winter project.

The first job for the R B was to machine up the cylinder casting which required a Bore of 2.25" over a 6.5" length and was carried out in the four jaw chuck.

After honing the bore the piston rings were tried and found to have a gap of .002" along the entire length of the bore, now, that I am more than happy with on a 'cheap' machine that has been in use for over ten years.

My only complaints are the indexing on the lathe, awful little aluminium tags, but as I only use them as comparators and prefer to get precise measurements from digital measuring equipment, I don't find this to be too much of a problem.

As John S. says, fitness for purpose.

Alan,

This statement is in the interest of clarity and nothing else. There are Chinese made accessories and there are Indian made accessories. If these parts which you had were specifically made as Myford compatibales, there is a high probability that they were made in India, not China, regardless of what the supplier told you. I come across this problem regularly. China has its own set of problems. India has its own set of problems.

It really pisses me off when such sellers do this with the full knowlege of origin. This process is specifically designed to make you think that all parts come from the same place. So when you call some other supplier and ask about the origin, the new supplier will say it is from China, and you will automatically presume that it is of the same quality as you purchased from the original supplier.

This is not to say that the new suppliers product of different origin will be better or worse, but the old supplier has made sure that you think that it will be the same!!.

So, by now, all the people who have read the title and content of your thread are of the opinion that these Myford compatable parts are made in China - which they are probably not, and the damage to what ever extent, is done. The seller who has probably read this thread is also laughing at this, knowing full well what he has done.

To date, there are extreamly few Myford compatible parts made in China. The parts you mentioned are probably not!.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 15/12/2012 11:13:28

It is never my intention to be rude to anyone, but i do get anoyed when, as John says folk expect a Rolls Royce for the price of a Lada. The first lathe i bought was an ex school BOXFORD which with my then very limited knowledge i managed to make a real mess of everything i tried to make.I then bought a Hobbymat and things started to improve. After a bit of a windfall i sold the two lathes and bought the Chester UK DB10VS. Wow! i found that i could produce accurate work after all, it was not just my lack of experience but clapped out machines that were the problem. It has been a steep learning curve since then. With regard to Chinese items i will say this. After the war japanese stuff was total rubbish, but within a few short years they started to produce items that are now regarded as the best in the world. Watch that space as they say.

Cheers Derek.

This thread started off concerning accessories rather than whole machines.

I have never owned a Chinese lathe so I am not in a position to make any useful comment about them.

Returning to accessories, a few years ago at the Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition I decided to buy a travelling steady for my Myford super 7. One trader was selling genuine Myford ones at £45 which is a good discount and represented a very good deal.

Did I buy one? No like an idiot I bought a “pattern” one for £21, knowing it would originate from the Far East most likely India, from one of the principle suppliers in the south midlands who regularly advertise in all the model engineering magazines.

My reasoning was that there could be little risk buying such a simple item.

Wrong! When I got it home and took it out of its packet I noticed the single fixing hole was very large considering the fixing bolt is only ¼” diameter. Closer examination showed the hole to be 10.2 mm diameter and that it was drilled on the skew by about 5 º but even worse, when offered up to the lathe the hole was so out of place that the top finger was about 2.5 mm back from the horizontal centre line. Then I looked at the side finger and found that to be 2 mm below centre height. Again a totally useless item.

I could have returned the item for exchange (would a replacement be any better?) or I should have got my money back. Instead I made the large inaccurate hole solid by plugging and machining back then re-drilled one of the correct size in the right place and made a suitable spacer to go below the steady. It is now usable.

So, stupidly, I let the suppler off the hook. I should have made them do something about it but to be honest I was so ashamed and disappointed with my own stupidity and meanness that I felt obliged to put matters right myself.

Can someone please tell my why the factories that make these parts produce items that cannot possibly fulfil their basic function when it is just as easy to make them correctly.

Is it the fault of the suppliers who obviously do not carry out sufficient quality control checks?

Not entirely, it is also my fault and the fault of other model engineers for always wanting a bargain regardless of origin. The suppliers are only fulfilling our demand. If they were to offer higher priced quality items no one would buy them – look what happened to the excellent Hobbymat lathe that is still made in Germany but no longer sold in this country because it is too expensive.

This thread makes me think there is an opportunity for someone in the UK to make certain Myford accessories and spares properly.

Obviously a lot of items wouldn't be economical to produce but there's got to be a few quid in it if you pick the right bits.

I wouldn't call RDG a 'cowboy' supplier. I have had nothing but good products and service from them over the years. I have dealt with Chris and found him polite and helpful, but then I also dealt with him courteously and he reciprocated. The only time I had a problem with a small milling cutter it was replaced without question with no need to return the original faulty tool. I have had the same service from Arc with whom I have had excellent service and products, I know Ketan and would always recommend his company to anyone who asks, with confidence. As for the other main suppliers I have had only minimum dealings with them (except for my excellent chinese lathe from Warco) but have heard of few, if any complaints compared with the huge number of transactions they must carry out.

The mechanisms of name calling and use of dubious metaphors I do not consider to be 'positive' contributions to any thread. Perhaps you simply want us all to agree with your complaints?

By the way, I too served an apprenticeship of 5 years in Engineering (in the early 60s) and have had many years experience and agree that Boxford are excellent (I have a CSB and a BUD) but for ease of use and accuracy they will not beat my Chinese lathe with it's Indian HBM chucks. They are very fit for purpose..

Best regards

Terry