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Article Suggestion "White Elephant & Why"

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Chris Trice16/11/2017 02:47:45
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1376 forum posts
10 photos

I think you have to differentiate between tooling that seemed a good idea at the time that in practice finds little use, and tooling that remains theoretically a good idea but when purchased was found to be woefully manufactured and no use to man nor beast. I've had quite a few of the latter. I must have four different types of collet system for the lathe. I liked the idea of all of them but in practice, I don't need three of them. For what I make, the dead length ones are ideal as they don't shift the position of what I'm machining when you close them which the others do, plus the speed and convenience of operating a lever rather than tediously undoing or doing up a collet each time wins hands down. Fortunately the ER collets are now employed on the milling machine. I've built complicated accessories that are beautiful pieces of engineering and design but so often there are simpler and quicker alternatives that do the job just as well and those are the ones I reach for.

Chris Trice16/11/2017 02:59:20
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1376 forum posts
10 photos

Have to nominate my Dickson QCTP as worth it's weight in gold. No more fiddling with shims or limited to only four tools. Tool changes happen in seconds.

Bill Pudney16/11/2017 03:37:37
622 forum posts
24 photos

In my case I was so impressed with my 5 tool, toolpost turret, that I bought a Schaublin 70 Turret lathe! What's more I'm now deep into self punishment making a copy of the Schaublin 70 toolroom lathes "screw operated carriage" for the turret lathe!!

cheers

Bill

Andrew Johnston16/11/2017 08:06:56
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7061 forum posts
719 photos

I haven't really got any white elephants. I've bought a few things on Ebay out of idle curiosity, like these bent taps, that I'll probably never use:

Bent Taps

In all these boxes:

Bent Tap Boxes

Total cost was 99p, including hand delivery to my mum as the seller was in the same town. thumbs up

One bit of tooling which I'll probably never use is the Dickson QCTP. I've got one on the hydraulic copy unit, but I'll never fit one to the main toolpost. I reckon 60% of my machining is one tool, around 25% is two tools and the remaining 15% is mostly three tools. I don't sweat centre height setting, as long as it looks about right compared to a tailstock centre that's good enough. You simply don't need to be worrying about the odd thou or so, especially with larger diameter work.

Andrew

Michael Gilligan16/11/2017 08:33:49
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23121 forum posts
1360 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 08:06:56:

I've bought a few things on Ebay out of idle curiosity, like these bent taps, that I'll probably never use:

.

Am I correct in thinking that those are designed for quantity production of nuts, on a specific machine?

MichaelG.

ega16/11/2017 10:26:56
2805 forum posts
219 photos
Posted by Hopper on 16/11/2017 00:09:44:
Posted by ega on 15/11/2017 23:55:25:

David Colwill:

Brewer supports your white elephant derivation. It makes you wonder why there used to be White Elephant stalls at fetes!

I think the term has come to mean unwanted gifts in general.

The current usage seems to relate to possessions generally and would, of course, include gifts. I am not sure whether I feel better about the self-inflicted or the gifted.

MW16/11/2017 10:41:17
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2052 forum posts
56 photos

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/11/2017 18:37:29:

cross-slide vice, flood cooling system and a LED room-sized work light.

Dave

I don't know what use the light would have in our environment, probably why it's on your list. I agree flood coolant sounds like a great idea but in reality turns out to be far more trouble and hassle than it's worth if your machine was never designed to cope with it.

One I do have to disagree with though would be the cross slide vise. definitely ends all those moments on the pillar drill needing to swivel and turn the table to get the right alignment. The vise itself isn't very delicate must admit, but I use it to hold a smaller vise inside that, which is like a small toolmakers vise.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 16/11/2017 10:41:59

Andrew Johnston16/11/2017 10:44:44
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7061 forum posts
719 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/11/2017 08:33:49:
Am I correct in thinking that those are designed for quantity production of nuts, on a specific machine?

Correct, there was a discussion on the forum some years ago. The consensus was that the taps were used on specialised automatic nut tappers.

The shank of the tap is smaller than the minor diameter of the thread, so the tapped nuts can slide along it. The shank is held by two grippers that move in sequence to let the nuts past the first gripper, and then past the second gripper into a bin, without completely letting go of the tap.

Andrew

Michael Gilligan16/11/2017 11:09:40
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23121 forum posts
1360 photos

Thanks for the confirmation, Andrew yes

I have some straight 'reduced shank' taps with the usual square drive; but have yet to see the machine that takes those bent taps.

Perhaps you should tool-up and start producing nuts for the hobbyist community ... I recall that we used to buy nuts by the thousand at prices that many amateurs would consider reasonable for ten.

MichaelG.

Chris Trice16/11/2017 11:29:37
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 08:06:56:

One bit of tooling which I'll probably never use is the Dickson QCTP. I've got one on the hydraulic copy unit, but I'll never fit one to the main toolpost. I reckon 60% of my machining is one tool, around 25% is two tools and the remaining 15% is mostly three tools. I don't sweat centre height setting, as long as it looks about right compared to a tailstock centre that's good enough. You simply don't need to be worrying about the odd thou or so, especially with larger diameter work.

Andrew

I'm curious to know which three tools you use that cater for everything.

larry Phelan16/11/2017 12:18:25
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544 forum posts
17 photos

I do not have a white elephant,I have a whole herd of them !

Bazyle16/11/2017 13:22:00
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6956 forum posts
229 photos

For interest I got the mechanism off a player-piano for 99p. One particularly interesting part was that it used 'Mecanno' chain transmission. About 1million p-ps a year were being produced at the time Mecanno was invented.

There is a video of the bent taps machine on youtube that was linked in the previous thread I think.

jimmy b16/11/2017 14:49:54
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857 forum posts
45 photos
Posted by larry Phelan on 16/11/2017 12:18:25:

I do not have a white elephant,I have a whole herd of them !

I'm glad I'm not the only one.....

Jim

Antony Powell16/11/2017 15:26:28
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147 forum posts
19 photos

1) Doesn't actually do what I thought it would.

2) Don't actually need to do what it does

3) Can't accommodate it on my machine

4) Doesn't suit the way I work

5) Needs a bunch of other (expensive?) stuff to be really useful

.

The wife says 4 of the 5 apply to me, but she's working on number 3

 

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 16/11/2017 15:27:13

Edited By Antony Powell on 16/11/2017 15:28:58

Phil H116/11/2017 16:49:18
467 forum posts
60 photos
Posted by Bandersnatch on 16/11/2017 01:48:06:
Posted by Phil H1 on 15/11/2017 16:52:20:

A set of X, Y & Z DROs. I bought them about 4 years ago and they are still sitting in their boxes. The reason? They tend to fit scaled handwheels on all three axes of a milling machine - so I use them. Anybody want to buy mine?

- I don't really see how you can call something a white elephant while admitting that you never actually tried it, Phil.

- I feel rather sure that if you had tried the scales you wouldn't think of them as white elephants - anything like. You might think that of your scaled handwheels though. There are quite a few posts in various threads here where others support that position.

Best things since sliced bread. If they broke, I'd buy a new set. Certainly wouldn't want to go back to handwheel scales.

And Clive, I'd hardly say they "cost a fortune" .... well, yeah if you limit your sights to Mitutoyo et al .... but there's plenty of decent hardware around that are well within the cost of other typical workshop tools and add-ons.

I have seen what they do in the real world and they are still here waiting for anybody who wants them - at a good price. I will probably add them to the for sale items.

Phil H

Chris Trice16/11/2017 18:33:48
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1376 forum posts
10 photos

Are we talking digital counters that measure the position of the hand wheels or linear scales?

JasonB16/11/2017 18:46:55
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25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 08:06:56:

One bit of tooling which I'll probably never use is the Dickson QCTP. I've got one on the hydraulic copy unit, but I'll never fit one to the main toolpost. I reckon 60% of my machining is one tool, around 25% is two tools and the remaining 15% is mostly three tools. I don't sweat centre height setting, as long as it looks about right compared to a tailstock centre that's good enough. You simply don't need to be worrying about the odd thou or so, especially with larger diameter work.

Andrew

You do also have the Britan rep lathe, where as us poor soles with just one lathe have to keep swapping between R/H tool, chamfer tool and parting tool when making say a batch of nuts. And it is not just the height that a QCTP helps with but it also puts the tool back in the same position so you can use the same handwheel or DRO setting each time you swap tools rather than having to measure each time as you would with a 4-way.

J

Neil Wyatt16/11/2017 19:07:05
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19226 forum posts
749 photos
86 articles
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 10:44:44:
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/11/2017 08:33:49:
Am I correct in thinking that those are designed for quantity production of nuts, on a specific machine?

Correct, there was a discussion on the forum some years ago. The consensus was that the taps were used on specialised automatic nut tappers.

The shank of the tap is smaller than the minor diameter of the thread, so the tapped nuts can slide along it. The shank is held by two grippers that move in sequence to let the nuts past the first gripper, and then past the second gripper into a bin, without completely letting go of the tap.

Andrew

Why not chop off the bent ends?

JasonB16/11/2017 19:08:30
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25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles

I think that was suggested at the time Neil.

Neil Wyatt16/11/2017 19:12:52
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19226 forum posts
749 photos
86 articles

I was given a "universal sharpening jig".

About 10" high in a wooden box it has lovely well-made graduated swivels in 3 axes and holder to take lathe tools up to about 3/4" shank.

Presumably it goes on the bed of a grinder so you can set all sorts of compound angles.

One day I will figure out something to make using the bits.

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