Would you buy a second hand laptop computer ?

I bought a new laptop about 5 years ago with windows 8, I don't know why but it seemed like a good idea to upgrade to windows 10 when offered for free. Since doing that it became slow to connect to wifi and picked up a virus. I took it to a computer shop (no longer trading) for a fix. I think they may have installed a pirate version of some software as every time I searched for something starting with E it linked to a porn site. Relegated it to a cupboard and bought a Lenovo Ideapad for about £150. Does everything I need and new.

I bought a s/h laptop about 12 months ago from a local computer shop. It was ex-government so the hard disk was wiped clean, it is a Dell Latitude E5400 running Windows 7. Have had no problems at all, it does everything i ask of it, only downside is that it's a bit weighty compared with some other brands, but i can drop it on the floor without anything breaking (well at least that's what the computer shop guy intimated, but i'm not in a hurry to check it out.....)

The only thing you'll beak if you drop that thing is your toe, or the floor.

Ian S C

download Linux mint and get it to overwrite your oddball OS. It's free and does everything I want.

You can get yourself a nice 2.5" SSD and a "pre-used" copy of Windows 7 or 10 for £50 or so all in. Often this will transform an old clunky machine into something really quite usable. I did this with a Lenovo my mother had given up on and it's given me a couple of years of good service ever since. Good for streaming music from the NAS to the workshop hifi, surfing for datasheets etc and bits of CAD work in the workshop - or as an emergency backup in the house.

Having said that, a second hand laptop has very little commercial value unless almost new and will become obsolete quite rapidly, so coughing up another £100 or so for a new one with warranty may be sensible depending how computer savvy you are.

Murray

When my wife's Medion died, we looked into various options & ended up with a second hand Dell from a local independant computer shop. The going rate at the time for a new i3 HP with a 768 display was £399 - the Dell was an i5 with a 1080 display for £50 less. Both came with W10 Home & 12 months warranty. The used machine has been problem free for the last 12 months. IIRC the shop said that the used Dells he sold came direct from Dell.

At work my workstation is a used HP that came from Pyramid Computers. W7 Pro & problem free for the last 3 years. IIRC it was £200-ish & came next day.

Seem to be able to get better performance for less money buying an ex-commercial machine & I will look in that direction first next time I need one.

Nigel B

Windows 10 is possibly a bit much for a five year old laptop. Why not dig it out of the cupboard and install a lightweight edition of Linux on it instead? You might be surprised at the performance.

Russell

Do not buy one unless you can trust the previous owners. You will never know what has been down loaded. If you do buy make sure you keep the receipt as proof of date of ownership. That way you can prove what files you are liable for.

And remember you can never delete files from the hard drive, you need to remove the hard drive and smash it with a large hammer. This is the only way to stop anyone retrieving any data from the drive!

This is overkill. While just deleting files will not get rid of them entirely, there are plenty of programs available that will wipe the disk and overwrite any existing files. I've used Bleachbit. If you just install Linux in place of Windows the installer will reformat the disk in EXT4 rather than FAT format and any remaining files will become unreadable.

Russell

Having worked for a major bank on IT security we found this was the only way to be 100% sure that all data was rendered un-useable. We never sold or disposed of any hard drives without destroying them. We were advised by Government security advisors that you can always recover data from a hard drive and it was proven to us that this was possible.

Sorry to disagree Russell. Much depends on how badly someone wants to read that disk. Time, money and inclination.

1. Deleting a file just removes the file's name from an index and frees the storage so it can be used by something else. The data is unchanged until it's actually overwritten. Large portions of the original data may remain intact and retrievable, possibly for years. Even if if the storage is reused, see point 5 below!
2. Repartitioning a disk completely destroys the operating systems understanding of how folders and files were organised but the data is still intact and can be retrieved. Not easily, but certainly possible.
3. Reformatting a disk is more brutal, but even that does not necessarily touch old user data. For example MSWindows Quick Format is superficial. Full format is more likely to damage data structure, but it is still possible to retrieve data. It may be hard work to piece it together, but it can be done.
4. The real killer though relates to the way hard-drives work. They are analogue devices. Being mechanical, a disk's read/write head does not accurately position over the track each time it passes. That means readable old data can be recovered from an overwritten track by careful positioning of the read head. Recovering data this way is costly. It may require the disk platter to be removed and mounted in another machine, and post-processing of multiple possibilities. But it can be and is done.

The range of recovery options can be very useful. If important data is accidentally deleted, there's a reasonable chance of getting it back. There are companies specialising in this kind of work, but be warned - they're not cheap.

From a security point of view, smashing the disk will usually put the data beyond economic recovery. Even then, be aware that 'military grade' destruction requires disks to be physically smashed and incinerated. That's because, in theory, a well-funded government agency could still to get data off the bits.

Software methods of erasing disks have a cheesy reputation in the trade. Various reasons such as for efficiency, most operating systems and disk controllers are unwilling to write data to physical media unless they really, really have to, preferring to wait until it's convenient to them. That means it's possible for a higher level program to think it's comprehensively overwriting a disk when in fact it's only pointlessly overwriting buffers in memory. The way software methods depend on implementation detail isn't strong security. It might work well on one system build and badly on another.

As it's so easy to do, I always smash old disks before disposal. One good whack with a small hammer is enough.

Dave

Edits, typos galore!

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/08/2017 11:49:48

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/08/2017 11:51:11

Are we not talking about two completely different levels of security requirements here? Obviously organisations like Banks, the NHS, Police etc must do the ultimate to prevent loss of data, but for the average person is it necessary? If I sold my PC after just deleting the files, is it likely that the new owner is going to go to the trouble of finding some special software or whatever is required to search the hard disc, to be honest if I sold it on without deleting anything the new owner would soon get bored looking at old holiday photos and reading my emails etc, even my bank account numbers are passed on when I use my card or write a cheque so they aren't that secret.

If some dishonest person thought that my PC would contain very desirable info' he would probably break into my house and steal the PC, not wait until I sold it.

John

Recovering _some_ data from a disk of deleted files is trivial for some people. Recovering data from a securely wiped disk is not. Putting a nail through the disk platter would probably put a foreign intelligence service off the idea of recovery. For my home PCs I wouldn't care about the data on there but a bash with a hammer is easy. For work, secure shredding.

Second hand laptops - I wouldn't bother but if I got one I think I'd want to put a new disk in. Borrowed USBs = no. Freebie marketing USBs = no. First sign of any virus - reinstall the OS i.e don't bother to patch.

New Laptop - I prefer to reinstall the OS to get rid of bloat but not always.

Surely all the issues about security regarding hard drives is the concern of the seller of a PC, not the buyer as in the OP's case?
The easy option regarding security if selling a PC or laptop on is do what I do, keep the original drive and use it for storage, all your old stuff is still on there and can be transferred to a new PC using a caddy or USB jump lead, then stick a new one in the PC being sold and shove a fresh OS install on it, HD's are so dirt cheap now - even SD's, that it's hardly worth worrying about data breaches by leaving the old one in place.

John.

Whatever you get try and get a quad core version and plenty of RAM would be my only advice

(There's so much choice out there)

Hi, well I have had three second hand laptops, not for some years now, but I never had any issues with them. All I ever did was to wipe them with the free Killdisk that was available off the net, you could buy more effective ones, but I never found the need too, and then I reinstalled the OS. John, not so economical to replace the hard drive these days, as you would need to buy a new OS licence also, which would probably be as much if not more than you could sell the laptop on for. Second hand laptops are becoming so numerous, that they are hardily worth bothering spending any money on them to get a sale, as new laptops outsell desktop computers by a long way and the price of the more every day ones are quite low priced these days.

Regards Nick.

Nick, no need to buy a new installation key, all laptops these days have generally come from one of the big box movers and possibly tower units too unless it was a bespoke build, they will have had the OS pre-installed from new, the key is on a label on the base of the body and also embedded into the BIOS, you can generally use any installation disk from one of the big names too as long as it's higher than or equal to the format being replaced, I've frequently used Dell installation disks (tenner posted via a well known auction site) on all of my laptops including Toshiba, Acer and my Vaio, you may get asked to call Microsoft to verify the installation key, but it's an automated process and I've never had a problem with it.

John.

+1 for used install disks - or in fact just the key these days (no actual disk required). And when you install it on a brand new SSD in place of the original HDD, you don't need to waste armchair time fretting about the security of a used disk.

W7 and W10 actually work well on relatively old machines. They seem to be lighter and more nimble than previous versions.

Murray

One big concern is identity theft. Impersonation is much easier if the bad guy has access to a few personal details. Expect havoc if he knows your name, address, account numbers, interests, family details, web history, sources of income, service provider details and recent spending etc. Unless your computer is used for a narrow technical purpose, it will be a rich source of personal data. Small details add verisimilitude to confidence tricks. If they know enough, identity theft can be total.

Quite a few celebrity examples on the web (Gloria Hunniford has been done over twice), but most ordinary citizens are good for a few thousands. Even if you don't lose much cash, re-establishing your identity will be painful. You have to prove who you are after multiple institutions have been warned you're a fraud.

It's a mistake to assume 'no-one is interested in little me' especially where computers are involved. Big profits are made by attacking many soft targets. Do thugs go for Fort Knox or is it easier to take a few quid off little old ladies on pension day?

But yes, the point about different levels of security is well made. But don't underestimate the value of what's on your computer.

Dave

Well, if you're a terrorist or suchlike perhaps you should smash your old disk but if you are only concerned about the possibility of malware being hidden on the disk of a second hand machine smashing the disk is ridiculous. Are MI5 going to come along and tear your computer apart and try to read hidden information?

Russell