Which lathe?

Lists of the best lathes can be rather misleading if no account is taken of what the lathe will be used for. If you are machining big stuff then you need a big lathe and a Myford would be at the bottom of your list.

If however,like me, you are into small stuff then a Myford may well be at the top of your list. I have used a small Myford (Speed 10 ) for over 20 years and have rarely needed anything bigger and it suits me just fine. For a beginner a small lathe has many advantages, one of the most important being safety since they are more forgiving when you do something silly.

If you start with a small lathe you can easily upgrade if you want something bigger and by that time you will know exactly what type of lathe you want.

Doug

Wise words from Doug. I was building a car when I got my first lathe so the 3.5" Grayson I bought was on the face of it an unsuitable size choice, however i learnt a great deal on that lathe! often working at the absolute limits of its capacity. Most jobs were doable with a bit of ingenuity, but in hindsight painfully slow. Spent many a happy hour in front of it though, in between thumbing a greasy copy of Mr Spareys most excellent tome " The Amateurs Lathe"

I eventually upgraded to a Harrison L5a which brought a wealth of automation and convenience to the workshop. The ability to take heavy cuts without stalling the lathe, Norton screw cutting gearbox, 4 way toolpost, powered feeds etc, made jobs that would have taken hours or even days on the Grayson a doddle to complete. It also had a very useful boring table which I used for milling duties until I could afford a dedicated mill.

After many more years I was offered a Colchester Student 1800 at the right money, so reluctantly passed the Harrison on to a friend, the Colchester is another step up in convenience, DRO, QCTP, Cam lock chucks, inverter drive etc, however unlike the Harrison it doesn't feel like wearing a pair of old slippers yet.

Like many people these days I'm time poor, so appreciate the speed and convenience a more industrial sized machine affords, but to be honest it's not a necessity for many jobs, and in some ways I miss the challenge of making things on the little Grayson.

The main problem with a used ML10 or Speed 10 is having the parts that are usually needed at some point. 3 & 4 jaw, face plate, no problem so far and then comes a fixed steady. That can be a problem to find. The difficulty of finding all of these parts can vary according to the lathe - price too.

The other aspect is the earlier ML10 - best avoided due to the headstock bearings really or checked very carefully. ML7's have the same problem but much of this type of problem depends on how much finishing with files and emery cloth is acceptable. I prefer none. Super 7's can have similar problems as can all other lathes for very similar reasons but sometimes it's fairly easy to replace the bearings.

The seven series lathe beds don't take wear well. They are great if perfect. On curious aspect is that Raglans use a similar arrangement and don't have as much of a problem with wear. They probably do at some point but the one I owned had more or less the same amount of wear as an ML7 I also owned but it didn't cause any where near as many problems. This was just a few thou on the width of the rails. The ML7 was also a dog due to head stock bearing wear until it was fixed. No problem if some one can use a bearing scraper. Till that was fixed the machine had a built in chip breaker on many materials and bits flew all over the place.

The main advantage of some sort of gearbox as I see it is easy feed selection - not easy screw cutting settings. It's just handy for that.

Colchesters, Harrisons etc. It's pretty easy to buy examples that don't deserve the name any more really. Generally when they really do the ££££££'s creep up at a very rapid rate. Some models are more inclined to be used lightly than others. This is true of other brands as well.

Personally I suspect the OP would be better off looking at the Warco site. If he has the funds and wants a fairly flexible size I would point him at the smaller gear head that at the moment comes with dro. He could easily spend 3k on something else and finish up with a dog. If that is too much several people on here use the larger variable speed models. Jason mentioned recently that his 280 runs out of steam at circa 9" dia so needs smaller cuts, That's how I read it anyway. Not surprising really but I'd bet he could modify the pulleys if needed. Some one else bought a similar lathe and the low speed range had been reduced to circa 400max, usable but probably a bit irritating to some one who often works at higher rpm's - bigger cuts at larger diameters, other types of cut will just take longer. I think Jason's low speed range tops out at 800. They will have changed this to give lower speeds for screw cutting. Ok drives and motors have been known to let the smoke out on these but it doesn't seem to happen very often and spares are available. Where these machines may fall down is milling, no way to fasten a vertical slide. The main limit of milling this way is capacity but it does extend what can be made on a lathe rather a lot. A lathe used like this can often be more rigid than some cheap small light weight miller.

John

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Thanks everyone,

some real good advice and helps me greatly. I think it pushes me down the road I would like to have gone, that is a larger lathe and I think I would be looking at the M300 but have not ruled out some others like the 140 etc. Luckily, my experience was in using larger lathes but not for decades since. Times have changed a lot since then.

I have noticed that the M300 does not appear to have a slotted cross slide. Is this a real drawback? I have not ruled out others though as I quite like the 140.

In reply to Ajohnw, he is quite right, I probably don't have enough experience to cover all the angles and to make sure I don't buy a dog. Is there a safe way?

I will be looking at whatever I like prior to purchase of course and will work on the basis of a lathe that looks good and looked after and done light work wherever possible. I guess seeing and hearing it running is also important together with history about where it has come from.

thanks again.

I would point out there is a classifieds section on this website and in the magazine if youre looking for an honest old machine.

Michael W

i am fortunate to have both a near mint M300 and a similar Myford S7. Personally all my fine work is done on the S7 transferring to the M300 when size matters. The rough spindle bore on the M300 has an attraction with multisize collets coming into their own, often preparing lengths of round bar stock for the S7. Swing size is also a consideration, depend upon what you wish to do.

It can be stalled if I take more than 0.030" depth of cut so I tend to take about 0.025" but unlike a Myford where you would be reaching for slowest backgear the 280 is happy to run faster so really it take s no more time to machine the part. Slow range is 50-950.

10.5" dia

9.5"

Edited By JasonB on 17/02/2016 15:35:29

The comment about the Colchester Master as a lathe for home use takes a bit of thinking about. A very desirable lathe I have used one for many years when I was at work. The size of the lathe and horsepower requirements need thinking about. Are they not around 7.5 HP ? that is a big VFD to drive one.

I seem to remember you saying you owned a CVA at one point Jason ? In many ways especially the gap bed model along with it's equipment the dream machine if it's in the condition the manufacturers intended and that's the rub. In some ways they are better than a higher end DSG and also smaller. DSG's look like they get worked to death to me. Personally I feel Jason made a sensible choice for what he does and he does clearly do a lot of it. Way more than many.

When buying machines like the ones mentioned one easy sign of use is the noise the gear head makes. Even with a moderate load the motor will louder and with no load they should be very quite, hardly any noise at all. No clatter. I wish the buyer luck in that respect especially with any Colchester. I have used a quiet Harrison that was pretty good. Bought for a workshop and not used a lot. Just odd jobs. That's the sort of lathe to look for. Boxford VSL's sometime finish up being used like that.

There are some makes about that no one ever mentions - maybe with gear heads it's best to forget the make and concentrate on the noise and hope the home electrics can provide the power. 3kw motor is usually reckoned to be tops for the normal mains sockets. I know from another area that if 13amps is taken for long periods many plugs and socket will have problems, Past that maybe disconnect the cooker or shower or pay the supplier to install 440 3 phase. That can be cheaper than expected sometimes as the phases may be close to the meter.

I wonder what will happen when we all have to go electric with everything especially heating where 20 to 30kw boilers are pretty common.

John

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On motoring forums do people choose between a lotus and a transit without even considering an estate or mpv, then get recommendations for a 7.5 tonner because of the useful tail lift?

John, they will get overspecified woodburners and realise they don't need so much when they try shifting wheelbarrow full of logs every hour.

BTW area3fitter have you thought about the nice dry warm shed to put it in yet?

If Gareth wants to look at what is available here might be a start.

**LINK**

Couldn't help linking to one I would go and try and it's in Wales. It also comes with it's kit. There are others on the same site. Usually known for rather high prices but in the areas that have been mentioned I don't think they are too bad now but buyer beware.

John

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John, shame they got the ctr height wrong, thats a Mk3 which is a M250 in colchester colours and only has 5.5" ctr height. Now if it were a late Mk2 with the long gapped bed and 6.5" ctr height it would be worth the trip

I'm all right Jack, I mean Jason I'm more or less happy with my 5". I mean boxford.

Lathes co reckon all 2000 are 6 1/2 ".

It's rare to see something like that with all of it bits - except a collets.

Having looked again though I suspect it needs gears to cut all pitches.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 17/02/2016 19:59:56

Edited By Ajohnw on 17/02/2016 20:02:23

5.7 is nearer 5 1/2" than 6 1/2"

Its only the later Mk2 2000 that have the 6.5"

Edited By JasonB on 17/02/2016 20:06:57

I have enough trouble powering a 7.5KW inverter to power a 2.25KW motor.

Not all L series Harrisons were imperial take the 140 an updated 11".

At last thanks Jason for the videos confirming what no one has ever been able to do unbiased.
Cant do a video comparison an action still will have to do taken around 14 years ago. Although aluminium 6082 facing cut 1/2" one pass 1000rpm, same motor size as WM280. Motor on picky starts to murmer at 3/8" depth of cut facing off, with various steels ie cast that's around 1/4" face off.

The Harrison 140 half the cost of a WM280.

Yes. Should have looked further down the page, It has tapered gib strips on the cross slide so some one may even have kept it properly adjusted.

I should have said 2hp for normal mains sockets. Not sure about 2hp through an inverter.. I did have a Viceroy for a while that had a 2hp single phase motor.

I've taken 0.4" plus off 6" diameter aluminium in one cut on a Taig. I doubt if it could be done with indexed tipped tools though. Main problem eventually was being able to see the lathe and the dustmen spotted the sward and said industrial waste and wouldn't take it away.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 17/02/2016 21:10:15

A consideration not mentioned when choosing a lathe is accessibility to the workshop for transportation.

I know someone who bought a Boxford model A and needed to install it in his cellar down some very awkward steps.

4 strong men and 8 cans of Stella were needed to complete the job!

Gordon.

Do NOT buy an Optimum lathe !

Chris , the Master has a 5hp motor,its the larger Triumph that has the 7.5 hp motor,my master runs off a static transwave converter ,its ok but I have a feeling that I am not getting a full 5 hp probably due to the very rural supply and a long way from the meter box. if the lathe speed was kept to below 1200 rpm then a smaller motor say 3 hp would be adequate, The higher hp motors were used to up the speed to 2500 for production turning with carbide, I find that the use of the high speeds is not essential,and I do not want to blow my converter.

That may not be fair Brian. It seemed to me that one glaring problem caused others - the lead screw mounting. It might be a baby lathe one off, a really bad one and it could also be that the problem doesn't exist on other models.

That's the problem - until some one buys one there is no way of telling.

John

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