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Starting from scratch

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Graham Newman19/02/2010 13:02:18
2 forum posts
Hello
 
I am looking for some very basic advise regarding setting up a workshop. Many years ago, while at school, I started, but never finished, building an LBSC Tich. Everything is now long gone, except the book and having retired a few years ago I would rather like to start again.
 
My main questions are - what tools will I need? I assume a lathe is pretty much essential, but with a limited budget would something like a Unimat 1 be up to the task? Or should I look for something bigger / more robust? I'm a bit wary about buying second hand as my knowledge is far too poor to see if I'm getting a bargain or a piece of tat, and i have very little disposable income these days so any mistake will mean that it takes that much longer to get materials etc.
 
I also assume a mill is probably fairly important, and I see that I can get an add-on for the Unimat - or again should i be looking for something better / bigger?
 
Also, apart from basic hand tools, spanners etc. is there anything else I should look at? (i have a few basic tools such as a small pillar drill etc.)
 
Finally (for the moment!), should I really be looking at building a Tich as a first / early project bearing in mind that I've not touched a lathe nor done any engineering for 40 years? I did wonder whether I should look at building a stationery engine or something first to get some experience of the tools and techniques.
 
Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
David Clark 119/02/2010 13:44:21
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi Graham
I think a Unimat is too small for a Tich and most stationary engines.
A minimum size would really be the C3 Minilathe from Arc Euro Trade or its equivalent.
 
A lot of beginners have made the Tich succesfully although some people say it is too difficult for beginners.
I don't think it is too difficult especially as you have the book.
You can also ask questions on the forum, perhaps start a dedicated Tich thread.
I have quite a few castings for Tich and hope to make a start on it this year. I am not bothered about pulling lots of people around, I just want to make one for the fun of it.
 
A mill would be useful but I suspect many more Tiches have been made with a vertical slide on the lathe than with a mill.
regard David
 
Circlip19/02/2010 13:44:40
1723 forum posts
Go for a Unimat with vertical head ONLY if you can afford a second mortgage Graham, obviously regarded as an "Investment" on fleebay judging by the prices some loonies are prepared to pay. Have a look on John Stevensons FREE site :-
 
 
  also look for something in the small rather than miniature sizes if you're NOT going to need to make 7 1/4" gauge.
 
   Good hunting.
 
  PS. It is STILL posible to use a vertical slide on a lathe.
 
  Regards  Ian.
Peter G. Shaw20/02/2010 21:25:06
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
Don't go for a Unimat 1 - it's more of a toy than a real piece of engineering kit. Although I am aware that it is now possible to buy metal parts rather than the original plastic parts. And yes, I bought one before getting a Hobbymat which I then P/X'd for the present Warco 220/Mashstroy C210T.
 
Vertical slides are ok but limited in their capacity. Also, it is necessary to ensure that the lathe slides are themselves in tip-top condition due to the vibration generated when milling. I had one with the Hobbymat and it was reasonable useful, however with the 220 it wasn't until I tightened everything up AND used a direct collet in the headstock taper to hold the milling cutter. Then, and only then did it start to become reasonable. But the lack of size still remains a limiting factor. I now have a milling machine.

Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Chris20/02/2010 22:40:35
87 forum posts
13 photos
Ohh how close you and I are. Like you I started in this mad game about 15/20 years ago and house building, kids etc put the thing on hold.
Now I'm back and although very dependant on the advice and help of members of this site (you know who you are) I am enjoying every minute of my engineering.
I have the Clarke 500 lathe/mill combo ( Machine Mart or Chronos) which is happy to handle everything involved in the Northumbrian build which is running in ME at the moment plus much more I suspect. Not the best I'm sure but a good starter point and heavy enough to feel like the real thing!
After that it's taps, dies, drills, lathe tools, mill tools etc etc etc etc etc, all of which can be bought as they are required. Been at it about a year and still have a wish list as long as my arm.
Beware this is a very adictive hobby.
Chris.
Ian S C21/02/2010 00:48:26
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
Buy as big as you can afford/got room for,the bigger lathe will handle little bits, but the wee one will only handle little bits.If anyone finds out that you'v got a lathe, they'll be after you to do jobs they can't get done else where(with any luck they'll leave a few bob, it always helps).I know, I started with a Super Adept, so I know small!!! Ian S C PS I went the other way in latter years, got a Taiwanese 1324 BH.
Geoff Theasby21/02/2010 02:39:11
615 forum posts
21 photos
Hi Graham,
 
I bought a Unimat 3 with milling attachment on eBay.   It does the job, but it is rather too small for some work, it won't do screwcutting, and if used for milling, the motor gets in the way of the job.   I have considered converting the milling attachment into a proper milling machine, but that would cost as much as buying a cheap commercial mill. 
 
I haven't built anything complex like a locomotive, and my interest lies in stationary engines, so I would suggest building on or two of those first.
 
Latest news says that there is a new "Workshop Practice" book out regarding building a workshop, that looks like a good place to start.   (Book 44, advertised here as I write)
 
I can't comment on vertical slides, since I am only now building my own for the Unimat.
 
Regards
Geoff
bill Maskell21/02/2010 08:28:07
13 forum posts
Hi Graham,
 
I started this engineering malarky about nine months ago.  I was fortunate enough to come across this website, which was a great help, but I also joined the local Banbury and District Model Engineering  Society.  They have been absolutely marvelous with their help.  I can't praise them enough.  I have recently finished my first oscillating engine, what a thrill to see it running.
 
Whatever you do, don't rush into it.  Look around,search the websites and talk to people that have done it.  There will be no shortage fo advice, I promise you.  Take it all in , then make your decisions.
 
 I was fortunate enough to pick up a Warco 240 second hand.  But the list goes on and on so think in the long term.
 
Good luck and welcome to a most fascinating, and enjoyable hobby.  
 
Regards Bill
Nigel Hyde22/02/2010 18:48:59
45 forum posts
2 photos
Hi Graham
whatever you dont build titch !!
I have mine just about complete, its been a nightmare ! (too small)
I wanted to build mine with slip eccentrics, but i was advised to build it with full valve gear, this i think was the problem, mine has been on the go for a few years, if it was not for my dad wo has built lots of loco's i would have stopped it long ago,
You will spend just as long making titch as any other engine and have an engine that will pull you around, me being a bit on the big boned size!
I am looking for my next project, got to be 5" as things get easier the bigger you go (i hope!)
 I looked at stationary engines at the start but just wanted an engine to thrash around a track
I have done all my work on my super 7 and vertical slide
I have heard good things about sweet violet (31/2" sweet pea)
Good luck
its a great hobby
Nigel
Nigel McBurney 122/02/2010 19:15:59
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1101 forum posts
3 photos
Hi   Get a second hand Myford 7 with a vertical slide,a lot of locomotives have been built on these machines,and if you decide to pack  up a Myford sells easily.
Graham Newman23/04/2010 16:58:07
2 forum posts
Thanks for all the replies.
 
Sorry I'm late responding - life sometimes just gets in the way!
 
Anyway, after a lot more thinking and research, I've decided to get a second hand ML7, and will probably build a few stationary engines to start before deciding whether to build a Tich or a different loco.
 
Everything is on hold at the moment, though, as we are probably going to move house in the not too distant future, so I shall spend some time reading and (hopefully) learning before getting stuck in!
 
 
mgj23/04/2010 17:56:59
1017 forum posts
14 photos
Graham - I don't think you will regret buying a Myford.
 
As for stationary engines - a lot of people start small, and small engines have small bits which are difficult to hold, set up and measure . Often they flex under cutting loads. So small is not necessarily "best" or easiest for a beginner .
 
There is quite a bit of tooling that you need - saddle stop, threading guides, mandrel turning handle, all of which are quite chunky, non critical, useful to have and will help you make friends with the machine.
 
As for locos. I am no expert, but having recently pretty much completed a traction engine and learned to live with small bolt sizes and again a small and not so easy to manage fire, you might think of something slightly bigger than a Titch - which if what I read is to be believed, is not so easy to build, and not great to drive. Look at Sweet Pea? That seems a well drawn simplified machine, with a good instruction book available, which certainly has plenty of pulling power. Its certainly buildable on a Myford with a vertical slide.

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