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TONY SPENCER	27/01/2010 09:51:45
11 forum posts 14 photos	what is the opinion of the members of this web site Edited By ANTHONY SPENCER on 27/01/2010 09:56:38
JasonB	27/01/2010 10:15:20
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Without knowing what you paid for it its hard to say if its worth the money!! Are you asking if a professionally made boiler should look a bit tidier? This is my Fowler one by Western Steam if you want something to compare with, at least Helen can do a decent job with the letter punches That firehole ring joint looks like it could do with a bit more solder Jason
Circlip	27/01/2010 12:18:38
1723 forum posts	Bit more room on your backhead Jason, and without criticising Helen in ANY way, if you look down the left hand seam, there look to be a couple of areas which exhibit the same "Fault".but at least show penetration. A good Silver Soldered joint is NOT one that shows excessive CAULKING like the old time Leaded joints. Followed Helens carreer in boiler making and as far as quality, she's one of "THE MEN" to go to for a boiler. To the point where a collegue returned back to Australia, one allegedly made to the allmighty AMBSC code and obtained one from Western with glowing reports. He lived a few miles away. in MALAYSIA. As far as the piccies go Anthony, all the info is there to be verified, CE is a load of cobblers, but all the others are TRACEABLE. Trust there's a CURRENT test cert with it?? Regards Ian
JasonB	27/01/2010 17:03:39
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Just seen the other pics in your album and now realise this is the same boiler you have posted about on several other forums under the username Ayesha2. Yes it does look rough and I would have expected better if paying for it. Not sure what that companies price is compared to others but I went to the supplier recommended for my fowler boiler not the one with the lowest price or the shortest waiting list. Jason
mgj	27/01/2010 18:19:07
1017 forum posts 14 photos	Is it worth it. Neatness of soldering is one of those things.....Personally I like my work to be a bit neater, but that's a matter of choice. At the end of the day there is only one way of knowing whether it was worth it - make up the blanking plugs and subject it to its hydraulic test, before you start adding bits and fittings.. It passes or not. Then you will be sure. Like Jason, I went to the people recommended (steel boiler in my case). Whether they were the cheapest, I have no idea - I never asked. However the boiler was on time, to drawing, well welded fully certificated and tested, and tight as a drum. I consider that cheap at the price, and I'll be buying my next steel one from them. Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 27/01/2010 18:23:27
JasonB	27/01/2010 18:33:24
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Meyrick, its not just the soldering, look in the albums section for the rest of the photos. http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=9671 Edited By JasonB on 27/01/2010 18:34:12
mgj	27/01/2010 18:45:55
1017 forum posts 14 photos	Jason - sure, hence my comments about being a bit neater! It don't fill me with great enthusiasm, dented and whatever like that. But at the end of the day all the maker has certified is that the material is to x or y and that it passed Hydraulic1. And, since almost all of that will be under cladding and never see the light of day again, so long as it passed an independent Hydraulic1 I'd accept it - because it would seem that he has had it for a little while.(Very grudgingly) - and I'd certainly do an independent H1 before adding any of my work to it. I agree entirely, it looks like a bit of old junk to me, and had it been mine it would have been photographed in minutes, the phone would have been red hot to the supplier, and it would have been back with the carrier within 24 hours. But unless one has registered ones protest a bit sharpish its difficult with unfinished items to prove what was done where. Who did actually supply that - there's no legal issue about that. There are photos, the boiler is numbered, and it was supplied by someone. Those are matters of fact and one cannot be sued for that - so long as the dings and lumps of solder were there when supplied.. Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 27/01/2010 18:47:29
JasonB	27/01/2010 18:52:28
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	It can be worked out from whats on the backhead, I'll pm you rather than mention on the forum. These photos and the subject of this post have done the rounds on a number of forums over the last year or so. They have been removed from several due to possible legal issues (David Please Note) Jason
David Clark 1	27/01/2010 19:25:42
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There Having seen photos of the original boiler (attached here and here) I think that is nothing to complain about. This boiler has been on many forums, in fact, it is quite famous. Perhaps it should be put into a locomotive and hidden away for all time? At least you can get some pleasure out of the locomotive. Who, in their right mind would continue to publicise that they bought a boiler that was not fit for purpose? Life is to short to spend complaining about something they were not the cause of and they can't do anything about. Oh, yes they can do something about it! The maker has said he will have the boiler back and do any rectification required at his own expense. I suggest that you do this rather than keep complaining to all and sundry. regards David Edited By David Clark 1 on 27/01/2010 19:32:55
PT	27/01/2010 21:12:22
15 forum posts 1 photos	Hi All, I'll keep this short and to the point. I am the manufacturer of the boiler in this thread. My name is Paul Tompkins of The Southern Boiler Works which I run with my father Norman, The boiler was despatched approx 1 year ago by courier. I informed the customer in early December 2008 that the boiler had passed the 180psi test. I recieved an email querying a bush below the water gauge and the lack of firehole door mounting. I explained the extra bush was because there is only one feed bush on the bottom of the barrel which I don't feel is a good idea. I recieved no futher contact until Jan 2009 where the customer said I had not told him the boiler was ready for despatch and he was concerned that the fitting of the water gauge may foul a clack. To check I installed a Polly 1/4" water gauge and a clack. I felt though that you would need to remove the water gauge and the clack if you wanted to replace the ball. With this in mind I then installed a second clack bush the other side of the backhead (in which Tony Wheales M.E. notes say you can) and two blind bronze bushes for mounting a fire hole door. The boiler was then re-tested and a new certificate issued. Once recieved the customer left a tele message complaining of additional bushes for extra water feed and optional fusible devise. No mention of any Damage was mentioned at all. I still have the message on my answering machine. I replied with a long email explaining why I put the bushes in and as the customer had previously indicated he new little about locomotive construction I suggested he take the boiler to his club boiler inspector for independent advise on how to install the boiler. I also said his boiler inspector may contact me with any questions he may have. I then recieved a short sharp email suggesting I had crushed and stamped on the boiler. I recieved no pictures of any suggested damage for several weeks. Once I recieved the pictures I offered to have the boiler couriered at MY EXPENSE for independent inspection by the chairman of the APCBM(m.e.) for assesment of the construction methods and standards. Should the boiler be found to be incorrectly made or sub standard a new boiler would have been made and delivered free of charge. I made this offer 3 Times. The customer refused to make the boiler ready for collection unless I gave a full refund before the boiler was despatched from him. The customer has continually hawked pictures taken with very strong cross flash photography. He has also made allegations of sub standard construction such as:- 1. a 16swg fire hole ring with no internal support. 2. Questioned if an internal butt strap is legal, after he asked for an internal butt strap during weeks of consultation prior to me starting the boiler. 3. The dome is 10 DEG out of parrallel with the bottom of the foundation ring. He sent pictures of the boiler on a surface table with a wixey angle gauge on the dome reading 0.8deg and 0.9deg. I asked him to confirm the readings where 0.8 and 0.9 deg and not 10 deg, I never recieved an answer. Please check out my album Ayesha 2 where you will find pictures of the boiler when despatched and the internal construction. I cannot make a boiler proffesionally to amatuer legislation, it is not possible. I make boilers where the customer has the option of every safety devise possible as legally I have a duty of care. Should a boiler fall into the wrong hands and something goes wrong, I might have to explain why the customer did not have the option of safety devices in a court of law. yours Paul Tompkins
KWIL	28/01/2010 09:46:36
3681 forum posts 70 photos	I have seen boilers made by PT [SBW] at various exhibitions and up to sizes you would struggle to lift. Construction is solid and well carried out. The squareness of bushing and all finishing items were excellent. His boilers have also been seen unclad on various part completed locos, again at exhibitions and I have never heard any adverse comments. It looks to me as though Mr Spencer, perhaps frustrated by his own efforts [unseen by us], has kicked this particular boiler around his own workshop floor judging by the before and after photos. I also suggest that if you photograph anything in strong cross lighting or closeup flash, even the best will not look quite as good. It strikes me that the time to put up or shut up has long past.
TONY SPENCER	01/02/2010 09:40:09
11 forum posts 14 photos	Never use flash tripod or moopod lumix fz18 on auto
TONY SPENCER	01/02/2010 09:43:41
11 forum posts 14 photos	hi kwil your comment is not worth commenting on sorry has your frustrated about the editor ufortunate mistake yours Tony
Circlip	01/02/2010 10:57:50
1723 forum posts	"Send Three and Fourpence"??? One can only comment when BOTH sides of the argument are heard. My IMMEDIATE reaction and reply are STILL valid. Regards Ian.
Danum	01/02/2010 11:59:47
8 forum posts	Hello. Been a beginner I am more of a reader of the forum (for information) than a contributor. However having read this thread through several times now I really do feel, as said before, 'either put up or shut up'. If Mr Spencer feels the boiler is not 'fit for purpose' or is defective in some way then he has a course of redress from having the boiler corrected or repaired, having it replaced with a new item to asking for a full refund. If it can not be 'amicably' agreed then Mr Spencer has the option of taking his complaint to the Trading Standards Service. It does appear SBW have offered to attend to the boiler and correct any matters Mr Spencer is concerned about but the offer appears to have been declined. The only other point I would make is no commercial organisation would refund money without having the goods in their hands. It would be like ringing up Marks & Spencers and asking for a refund and then saying you will post them the goods once you have their money in your hands.
Ian S C	01/02/2010 14:14:59
7468 forum posts 230 photos	Thanks Danum,I'v been tring to think of the same sentiments without appearing too rude, but if Mr Spencer spent as much time in his workshop as he does writing in several web sites he could perhaps build his own boiler,he obviously knows how to do it better than the professional boiler maker.We have a term for people like him here in NZ but I won't repeat it here.Antony, I think you would be better with another hobby that won't stress you so much. Ian S C
mgj	01/02/2010 15:54:26
1017 forum posts 14 photos	With respect to all but there is more to all this than meets the eye. I think it best if: 1. We all wound our necks in. 2. Mr Spencer took up the offer made by SW boilers. I think it would be even better if the moderator locked the thread.
Stub Mandrel	01/02/2010 22:26:45
4318 forum posts 291 photos 1 articles	It's a darn sight better than my attempt at boiler making, and mine's a simple verticle one with a flue and cross tubes. Neil W.
Ian S C	01/02/2010 23:11:32
7468 forum posts 230 photos	Agreed mayrick,and soon. Neil your spot on, my attempt was a dismal failure,just a little vertical with cross tubes in the single flue. Ian S C
TONY SPENCER	02/02/2010 08:43:00
11 forum posts 14 photos	Hi all agreed ian sc, meyrick , it is time to get back to the workshop your frank and honest answers are much appreciated yours sincerely Tony Spencer

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