After a new dial indicator

When testing to see how true my machine vice was i noticed my Clarke dial indicator jumping about. Its about 10 years old so time for a new one.

I have some credit on my Amazon account so thought i would use it to buy a new dial indicator. Budget is £50

I saw this one made by Starrett and seem to remember they sre a fairly good make so would like your thoughts please. See HERE

Edited By petro1head on 13/03/2023 06:43:48

Starrett is indeed a good brand. And that is a very good price for a Starrett dial indicator. I see they list others in their Amazon store for hundreds of Pounds. So that is obviously their budget model. Might pay to do some research and find out what the difference in specs is. I should think it would be ok for home hobby use though. I have had good use from Chinese cheapies over the years so am no connoisseur.

Further to Hopper’s wise words … I was interested to note that the Starrett ‘pitch’ has [shall we say] been modernised. The content of the U.K. website seems to have more gloss than I remember, and the Timeline includes this statement for 2022

Starrett launches their Amazon Brand Page. A brand new shopping experience, including a dedicated trade solutions area, best-selling selection, and shoppable reviews

**LINK** https://www.starrett.co.uk/our-history/

I am unsure whether to be impressed or concerned.

MichaelG.

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https://www.starrett.co.uk/products/precision-hand-tools/dial-indicators/dial-indicators-dial-indicators/3025-257j-dial-indicator/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/page/D395A72E-12A6-4993-BFE7-FA1129D57678/search?ingress=2&visitId=1309cadd-4357-4cfb-85e5-48d8b274e35c&ref_=ast_bln&terms=indicator

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/03/2023 07:32:10

There is a Cromwell tool store up the road from me which sell various makes. Two in my price range are Oxford and Kennedy, neither name i have heard of

If you have time for some background reading:

These guys probably know more about Indicators than the rest of us put-together

**LINK** http://www.longislandindicator.com/p37.html

MichaelG.

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http://www.longislandindicator.com/p14.html

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/03/2023 07:53:04

Starrett are using more and more chinese stuff now unfortunately

Is that such a bad thing?

Alternatives ?

I have used both brands and they are OK as a mid budget indicator, Kennedy are Cromwell tools 'own brand' I think, I would go with one of those over an Amazon Starrett offering, personally I always use a lever type DTI but that's only my preference.

Best one I ever had was a Compac Swiss made lever DTI, when I broke it I think I had to pay £100 plus to get a replacement and that was years ago!

Tony

My thought, FWIIW, if I were to own just a single dial indicator, as the OP seems to suggest that he will, then it most definitely wouldn't be a plunger type. My Verdict lever indicators are used constantly. I can't remember when I took a plunger model out of its case.

Lever type are far handier and more versatile.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 13/03/2023 09:24:59

Have you had look inside your dti to find out if it's a possible repair /service issue?. I'd be surprised if its not a simple issue then you would be in £50!

Interestingly, I've just followed up a few of the links in Michael's link and they seem to be dealing primarily with lever types, but don't list Verdict, which is almost like the name "Hoover" in brand awareness.

I have both and for me both have there uses

Thanks Tony

I see some on the Cromwell site say Jewelled.  Is that important?

Edited By petro1head on 13/03/2023 09:42:29

If you're prepared to replace it anyway, nothing to lose by taking it to bits and giving a good clean, relubricate with clock oil and reassemble.

Will do, love taking things apart, just hate putting back together to find they no longer work

My view is there isn't a good answer to petro1head's question. It pre-supposes there's a best buy make within a given price range, ideally cheap.

In my experience what separates inexpensive instruments from well-made ones is the latter are reliably smooth time after time. Cheaper movements tend to get sticky as they age, with the needle moving in jumps. Mild jumping doesn't matter much, but it gets annoying and slows work down. More than mild sticking is horrible.

Might be due to dirt - which upsets better dials too - but cheaper dials are probably less well finished inside and have inferior or fewer bearings. Work well new, but liable to wear out faster. Although cheap isn't good in a busy workshop, the same instrument could last forever In a home workshop.

It's not clear to me who actually makes DTIs. A quick look on the web reveals many unbranded dials, plus the following 'brands': Dapetz, DML, Katsu, WMBLK, AB Tools, Neolock, Dewin, AutoOutlet, Bergen, Neilsen, Laser, Toolzone, Mercer, JB Tools, Verdict, Satra, Grasmere, Baty, Dasqua, US Pro, and Draper. I didn't find Starrett, Oxford or Kennedy.

At least 6 of these brands are retailers who have had their name put on a generic instrument. I see 3 brands who made dials in the past, and might still do so, or possibly the firm went bust in 1975 and sold the brand to the Mafia. These days manufacturing can be almost anywhere, but if it's made in the West it will be high-end and cost more than £50. Can't trust the old boys either: the chap who recommends a make because his dial bought in 1955 is still going strong, could be horribly out-of-date. Plenty of firms who made good tools fifty years ago no longer exist, or their name is owned by someone else. Recent experience is much more trustworthy.

Price is a better guide. A dial sold for under £10 risks being too cheap. A dial sold for over £100 is probably good, though there's always a risk of paying over the odds for a fancy brand-name. 'Reassuringly expensive' is a type of scam.

My answer is to either accept I'm taking a risk, or - more usually - to buy from a UK supplier who will swap the item or refund in the event I get a dud. Easier to assure a supplier than the quality of a physical item before buying it. My aim isn't to buy the best possible tool for the lowest possible price, it's to de-risk what happens if the purchase goes wrong.

I have a Clarke lever dial too, also about 10 years old, and it's getting sticky! Maybe it's how long this inexpensive type can be expected to last in an ordinary workshop. I'd have been happy had it lasted 5 years, so it was a good buy. Certainly Far Eastern, I'd mark it 6 / 10 - did the job, satisfactory rather than impressive.

I had a good experience with a Dasqua digital caliper, and might try a Dasqua dial when the time comes. The caliper is priced mid-range, and it slides better than the cheaper variety. Not more accurate, just comfy and faster to line up. As Dasqua appear to be targetting the upper-end of the mid-range market, I'll probably give their dial ago. I have no idea who makes it or where.

Dave

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I had noticed that significant omission too … perhaps Verdict didn’t make it to Long Island

MichaelG.

I thought measurements were supposed to be taken at stationary points. What the needle does in between points is a mixture of vibration rattling the plunger/lever and small movements imparted by a less than firm indicator mount. Obviously there is no mount involved here if held in the chuck.

In my working life as a toolmaker I had 4 or 5 lever type DTI giving an average life of 12 years. Most died from clumsy operator error. Most where "Mercer 301" models and finally a Mitutoyo that I still use in my retirement workshop. I did have a Kennedy at some point that appeared to be a rebadged Mercer.

Well, that is a valid question. Do we say similar disparaging things about German or Japanese goods, which generally, are excellent?

The Chinese have probably invested in brand new modern factories and new machine tools, so what they produce is probably pretty good, albeit built down to a price instead of up to a high standard, but that reflects the market they are building for, e.g. us !

Like it or not, the Chinese are a global powerhouse of production, which we in the west don't seem to be able to match, despite having started the industrial revolution. Not sure about the Chinese use of coal however, that is just not on.