Update Smart Meter

Here we go!!

National Grid ESO is making a proposal that if consumers reduced the demand during 17.00 - 20.00 the price could be such that coniderable savings could be made.

Details to be announced in next 14 days.

First step to having variable pricing using the so called Smart Meters as discussed in previous threads and as is practiced in Ontario Canada already.

In its basic principle - what is the difference between this and the while meter in our house in the early sixties?

Smart Meters can be used at 30 minute intervals for complete variiable pricing against time and apparently to disconnect, so it seems.

What in effect they are saying is that between 17.00 and 20.00 the price per unit will rise in order to reap maximum profit for the period when customers return home from work and switch on their heating, use their ovens to cook dinner and plug their EVs in to recharge the batteries. Those with Smart meters will pay a higher price for units used during that period, now the true purpose of Smart meters is becoming apparent, they are not to help users save money, the propaganda used by the energy companies, but to maximise profits for energy suppliers. My energy supplier will have a hard job trying to charge me extra for using units during that time period because I don’t have a Smart meter and will be resisting all attempts to fit one, at the moment they are not compulsory. I suppose we can expect that the meters will also be used to charge a much reduced cost per unit for times when there is low demand, typically the early hours of the morning from midnight to 7.00 am, I think very few people use much electricity during that period, unless they have an Economy 7 tariff, which I am on, it affords me plenty of cheap units to charge my solar batteries using the winter months that I can then use during the day and avoid paying the standard unit rate. Dave W

Those are the times they are proposing at the moment.

How long before they are changed to a variable, sliding scale/tariff, of their choosing?

Martin.

Martin, I can easily see that coming. One question that needs to be answered is when tariffs are variable, as is being proposed, how does that fit in with the Regulators Price Cap for unit prices for customers, it makes a mockery of a Regulator ensuring that customers annual bills are reasonable and affordable.

Dave W

One word

Nationalisation

Leaving a bunch of well educated barrow boy spivs in charge of our energy supplies is madness

Edit: We are basically in a proxy war with Russia and its time for changes

Edited By Ady1 on 22/08/2022 11:56:40

No, theyare actually suggesting that a rebate could be paid for use during low demand periods.

No different to the old economy 7 system. It makes a lot of sense if it results in less use of Open Cycle Gas Turbines. Much better to keep within base load where possible. Most modern washing machines and dishwashers have timers so you can load whenever you like and auto operate later in the evening or night.

We all should be part of the solution not the problem.

regards Martin

I don't think it alters anything. The Price Cap sets a maximum that a retailer can charge his customers. A variable rate meter wouldn't be allowed to charge more than the maximum.

Is the Regulators Price Cap a good idea, well-implemented or is it failing to deal with today's problems? I think not.  The system was set up when gas prices were stable and it's purpose is to stop privatised retailers making excessive profits. Unfortunately, it doesn't cover what happens when Wholesale prices rise, with the result that over 30 energy supply retailers went bust, and their customers were almost all transferred to the 'supplier of last resort'. Not supposed to happen and the taxpayer picked up the bill. To make the system work at all, the price cap has to be reset quarterly. I think it would be better to let prices float: the regulator is malfunctioning.

A very unhealthy development in my opinion is the expectation that government should cover rising energy costs. Bad news for the taxpayer, but worse because it artificially sustains high-prices. Consumers need to cut back on energy: when supply exceeds demand prices will fall. This year we should all turn the heating off, go to bed early, and wear a vest and more jumpers!

Supply and demand causing prices to vary is the norm. Happens every time I buy food, materials, houses, insurance and petrol! The only reason electricity, gas, and water are fixed rate today is because the technology to make domestic variable rate meters didn't exist in the good old days.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/08/2022 12:16:51

My suspicions were aroused as to where this is leading once I'd cottoned on to the fact that there is a world-wide push to elimanate any energy source from being available to us except smart metered electricity.

No petrol, no diesel, no gas powered boilers and certainly nothing fueled by coal.

Martin.

Will the smart meter refuseniks be persuaded by the offer of cash for modifying their usage behaviour? The offer can only be available to those with a smart meter and willing to adapt their usage pattern.

Mike

Anyone who is smart will set their EV to charge in the early hours of the morning using it's timer. Same with not turning the dishwasher on straight after dinner or putting a load in the washing machine at that time. So why complain just be smart and make the most of the system to benefit from the savings. These should cancel out cooking your dinner at the normal time at a higher rate.

If you presume the majority are smart, then the majority will do the same thing - which leaves us in the same situation, just time shifted.

With still no alternative energy sources either.

Edited By blowlamp on 22/08/2022 13:35:06

But does time shifting not suit alternatives better as you can't speed up the wind or make the tide flow only between 17.00 and 20.00 so by using the greener sources at a more constant rate throughout the day day should reduce the need to chuck more coal on the fire at peak times.

Not sure I will want to get up at 3am to use my lathe....

I have a feeling it does matter what sort of meter we have with what supplier........

At least I have no dishwasher or EV (petrol is costly but is sold openly with displayed prices noticeably lacking along with card-readers, on public charging-points). If reasonably certain of dry weather I quite often do my washing late in the evening; and almost all on the low temperature and economy cycles; and hang it out before going to bed.

Really, it is no good complaining about the cost. We can do nowt about it, only try to economise as we can. I learnt on the radio this morning that even though much of our gas is still from our own North Sea wells, its prices are set far away from home by the international speculators.

And having sold/given so many of our utilities and other public services to any old foreign state, not just foreign company or Wall Street / Hong Kong / Shanghai/ Dubai spiv going, we have no real control over them.

There a need to move away from fossil fuels rather than a push. Don't forget Martin insists it's important to get cause and effect the right way round. It's need.

Possibilities:

1. Woke Greens have organised an international conspiracy designed to upset plain speaking realists who believe their opinions are just as good as everyone else's, even when the subject is specialised.
2. Since the Kyoto Agreement in 1997, there's been a slowly growing realisation that burning fossil fuels really is causing climate change. Also, that oil and gas really are at peak production and cannot be relied on to be available cheaply in the immediate future. Also that many other raw materials are in the same position, many with all known sources running dry this century. The response has been to increase recycling, find substitute materials, and encourage economies. The benefits to humanity are substantial.

As far I can see no-one benefits from a Woke-Green conspiracy. In contrast, managing climate change and diminishing resources benefits everyone.

In my experience it's best to tackle problems head on, not to pretend they're unreal in hope they'll go away. Is it really vital to carry on exactly as we are? Children alive now are going to have to deal with a different world entirely. It's 2022 not 1982, and definitely not 1882!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/08/2022 14:12:23

Dave.

Is there enough generating capacity to replace what is being removed to satisfy this "need" you speak of? If not, then what's the upshot for the average citizen?

Martin.

It is more than just the generating capacity, it is the ability to transmit the electricity. as I understand it there is no spare capacity in the national grid, so it will need upgrading.
There is also talk of borrowing electricity from car batteries. I wonder if owners will be compensated for the reduced life of these batteries?

I can't see anything wrong with running dishwasher /washing machine/tumble drier in the eay hours, just needs some planning. At the moment we pay wind power men not to produce when supply exceeds demand. Seems like a very sensible suggestion, no one is saying you can't use power at peak times if you're prepared to pay, and if demand does exceed supply I'd rather they switched off my washing machine than the lights.

Should I open a book on how long it takes for this to descend to a climate denier rant.

I would give it about ....10 minutes !

Regards

Derek