Indexable Lathe Cutters advice.

Hi Just purchased a 9 piece Indexable kit. Unfortunately only being a newbie with my Warco WM180 Lathe ( Last 2 months) I have just been facing and Turning so far. I have not as yet done any boring. So I thought if I bought a kit then at least I would have ALL the right cutters to learn with. So I bought these 10mm cutters.

I found that 3 of them were 8mm to tip, so I enquired and was told, I quote.

These are used for internal boring so they would have a bigger clearance, the height of them are 10mm so they are 10mm tools. I am a LITTLE bit inexperienced so would like to know if he is right. I have added a picture showing them. They are the top three. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Rob Frayne

You don't have any boring tools in that set.

Look at the side of the holders, you can just see the numbers on the top one in the photo the "08" indicates that the shank is 8mm x 8mm so an 8mm tool which would be about the right size for a WM180 or even 6mm would have done.

He said it is a nine piece set. The photo only shows 8 tools, so it would be correct to say there are no boring tools in that photo.

We need a photo of the missing tool to make a definitive statement about the properties of the set.

At a pinch, the bottom one, the internal screwcutting tool could be used for boring, but it would be horrible.

The code on the toolholder is SSSCR0810H09. That means that ONE dimension of the holder is 8mm and the other is 10mm. Compare and contrast the very common SCLCRxxyy tools, where x and y are generally equal.

Still no boring bar in the other photo of the 9 piece set.

Unless warco are saying the 3 smaller shank ones are boring bars with extra clearance

I'm guessing the "boring tools" are no's 2,3, & 4. A view from underneath would confirm.

Regards.

David

For what its worth and i'm just a beginner also

1 - internal thread

2 + 3 internal facing/boring

4 - internal up to a shank

5 - external facing up to a shank

6 - same (not sure why the different angle to the tip)

7 - Facing - chamfering

8 - parting

9 - external threading

in all my "3 months of learning" all the boring bars ive seen have been round shanks -

I'm sure a more experienced user would shed more light.

You do tend to get some of teh more obscure holders an dinserts in these sets.

I can't find the set on Warco's site (image looks like it came from Amadeal) but this is probably the larger 10mm and 12mm set which shows the shape from below where there is extra clearance for boring on the three smaller shanked tools that would not show in a photo from above

This brings up the old advise not to buy sets but buy individual items as needed.

I would suggest talking to the people at J B Cutting Tools. They are based in Sheffield and run by a lady called Jenny Blackwell and her (i think) husband. In the dealings that I have had with them they are are always very informative and helpful. They have a website.

Good to see Rob's set of holders have their insert numbers printed on them - it'll save bother later!

Addressing the Original Post, which tools are for boring in these sets isn't obvious until the holders are turned over. Rear view shows the top tool shank in the photo has a reduced rounded profile for boring.

And the difference is also apparent from the side, where the boring bar insert is tilted & it's support is rounded away underneath:

Chris mentions it's better to buy individual items rather than sets. I think this is true when you know what you're doing, but it may not apply to beginners. A good way of learning is to buy a set and experiment.

Also, sets are often considerably cheaper per item than buying one at a time. If most of the tools get used eventually, it's cheaper to buy that way.

But keep an open mind. Starting out I didn't have crystal clear ideas about what my lathe was for other than it wasn't very fine work like clockmaking or hefty jobs like truing up old brake drums! (I'm an experimenter rether than a model maker.)

Taking twist drills as an example, I bought metric and imperial sets to get started. In practice I found there are sizes in both systems I never use, and others that get hammered. These I replace in bulk. Works well for me: I bought sets to get going, then switched to bulk buying and following Chris's advice once I knew exactly what was needed.

Dave

Thank you all for your prompt replies. I have learned a valuable lesson (£109) in the purchase of tools for the lathe.

It will be 1 tool at a time from now on. Mind you I am enjoying the learning curve of the Lathe.

Thanks again

Rob

In my experience £109 is just the start of things. In my humble opinion the next thing you need is a quick change tool post (QCTP), unless you enjoy spending more of your time setting up than actually turning.

Also, as you have a Warco lathe I would recommend you look at their QCTPs as they will fit without modification.

John

+1

The only cutting tools I've bought as sets have been needle files, riffler files and jobbers drills.

Personally I wouldn't bother with a QCTP. I bought a secondhand genuine Dickson toolpost for my lathe many years ago, but have never fitted it and probably never will. More than 80% of my turning is done with three tools - knife tool, boring bar and parting off blade. It's simple enough to keep shims with each one. Infrequently I use oddball insert tooling and HSS specials, but it's no sweat to set them up. I don't get uptight about centre height - just eyeball the tool against a centre in the tailstock. For the work I tend to turn it simply doesn't matter if the tool is a few thou out.

It's quite common for it to be stated on this forum that we're hobby machinists and have time to spare taking teeny cuts, so as not to stress the machine tool or cutter. So why is there such an obsession with saving a few seconds when changing tools? Even with a QCTP, unless there are a fair number of holders, one will still have to set individual tools.

Andrew

I think the answer you have been given is a bit of BS really. If you buy 10mm tools you would expect the tips to be roughly at 10mm height give or take a few tenths.

It is true that boring bars are under height, but you don't have any in your set.

That said it's not a big issue, especially if you have a QCTP, if not just pack them up with some shim. While I agree it is better to buy individual tools I wouldn't say you have wasted your money, £12 per tool with a tip ain't too bad.

QCTP are useful time savers, if only from the aspect of not needing to shim the tool to centre height when you come to use it . But space is needed to store the holders not in use.

Without a QCTP the shims needed for any tool can be held with the tool by gluing in place or merely holding with an elastic band.

Some time ago an article in MEW extolled QCTPs but said that changing tools could be no quicker than unlocking and rotating a four way toolpost!

Having a small shop, the space for storing spare QCTP holders is lacking, so I survive with front and rear four way toolposts,. These allow the use of six tools,(Rough turning/facing, Finish turning/facing, Boring, Front chamfer, Back chamfer and Part off ) without any changes being required, so tool changes are only needed for Knurling, Screwcutting or Radius turning.

Unfortunately, not all Top Slides have the facility to mount a rear toolpost.

If the space were available, out of idleness, I would probably change to a QCTP. They were devised for Industry where time is of the essence

Patience has never been one of my traits, but being retired, time, for most jobs, no longer presses, so the 4 ways suffice..

Hopefully this presents both sides of the argument.

You makes your choice and pays your money!

Howard

They also allow for repeatable tool changing, if you are doing more than one item and you need two or more tools you can swap back and forth and the handwheel readings will be the same for each part so no need to measure the subsequent parts.

Definately quicker and a lot less fiddly than changing from **MT to **GT provided you have holders with each type of tool

I have both 4 way tool posts and QCP holders. Both Myford products. I find the 4 way tool post to be more rigid than the QCTPs. I have never heard anyone else express this opinion, so is it just me, or is it factual?

Andrew.

Have never used QCTPs so am probably biased, but thinking about Andrew's comment on stiffness, he may well be right.

The more clearances that you have, even if clamped up, the more likely things are to be flexible.

So fitting the correct holder the correct toolpost becomes important. "Mix'n'match" is not a good idea.

And accuracy is related to rigidity.

Having said that, QCTPs were intended for in industry where time is money so no flimsy gadget would be tolerated when pushing machines close to their limits.

Probably, for the way in which most of us use our machines, we would not notice much difference.

But something worth considering if you are a "press on" type!

Howard

A 4-way will be sitting directly on the cross slide, QCTP holder will have air under it and off to one side of the support so less rigid. Though may not need the rigidity unless taking heavy cuts

Does anyone have the holder info for the 'W' shaped inserts (WCMT06) I have plenty of these inserts but only one holder that is about 6mm thick and a bit flimsy for my liking.

Rob, are the codes on the side of the WCMT holders you have shown the picture of?

Matt