Two sides of a coin?

I think that possibly both sides of the following may be in the interest of some?

On Monday 19th October I placed an order via their website for a 20mm slice of 150mm square cast iron from a well known model engineering materials supplier. I have dealt with them over many years - mainly at shows where they are usually present and on occasion by mail order - to date then a satisfied customer.

I received a Pay Pal invoice to the effect that the cost had been met. Nothing was recieved from the company to confirm or acknowledge the order.

Concerned there may have been a hiccup I telephoned on the 26th at pains to stress this was not a chase up - merely an enquiry as to have they got my order in the system. I genuinely had the distinct feeling that the person I spoke with did not seem overly interested - asked me what the item was and my name and asked me to wait. Few minutes later returned to phone to say he couldn't see anything but would check further and phone me back.

You've probably guessed but so far no phone calls have been made.

I emailed their sales the following day via their website and sent a further, personal, email including the PayPal receipt for their information. At no time was anyhing more asked for than a simple confirmation and a possible date of processing. As I write I have stiil received nothing from them.

I know that companies are going through all sorts of covid related problems and this may be the very reason - somehow though I just have a gut feeling it's not - just poor service. I hope not because as said I've been satisfied in the past but when you are met with no response at all I find that difficult to accept.

So - the other side of the coin.

The cast iron is required for my new project. I don't want to start it yet but I do like to get the material in hand for when I do which hopefully will be within a couple of weeks or so. With the negative feeling I have in seeing this cast iron arriving and a potential resolution dispute being lodged I tried elsewhere.

Never used them before but yesterday tried M-Machines (Metals) Phoned in the morning to be dealt with by a very helpful lady who assured me that yes they could supply me with a 160mm square (even better for my purpose) piece of GR250 CI cut to 22mm thick and that it would be 'in the post 'today'' (yesterday)

7pm tonight and it's on my dooorstep via Hermes - now I think you would agree that that is excellent service.

I have not said who the other supplier is at this stage as the order may actually materialise but if it doesn't and a subsequent dispute evolves well that will be a different matter. If it does well so be it - I have an extra piece of cast to call on - call it hedging a bet.

Caveat Emptor springs to mind - but a huge, well deserved pat on the back for M-Metals - and no, I have no vested interest other than being totally satisfied.

Ramon (Tug)

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 31/10/2020 20:06:55

New management will do that.

I shall have to look at M- Machines website. Found it and bookmarked it for future referance.

Edited By old mart on 31/10/2020 21:04:01

I pretty much use M machine for all my metal requirements, always get good service and products. I like that you can buy metal of a known specification.

PayPal have a buyer protection policy. Contact them to resolve your problem.

Paul

Hi again,

As someone who has always advocated to never make assumptions and to establish fact before making a comment I confess I am suitably embarassed to have to say I have not listened to my own advice!!!

When I made my post it was on the assumption that the package, still unopened, was from M-Metal - WRONG!!

So- my sincere apologies not only to the 'supplier' who I have dealt with over the years for providing me with a piece of cast iron but also to you all for misleading you in the way I have. As an old army saying went 'Do not anticipate the word of command' - guilty as charged sir I'll present myself for orders in the morning sir oops ooops bloody ooops

I had really convinced myself that something was awry with the first supplier with their seeming reluctance to confirm the order but on opening the box there was their invoice. My only defence in the matter is that I can say that all I was asking for was confirmation - I buy so much over the net these days and everything seems to attract several emails to confirm not only order but processing, dispatch and sometimes even delivery that I just felt something was not going in the right direction here because of lack of communication.

Alls well that ends well - no doubt the M-Metals package will arrive on Monday but the real bonus of this piece is that the cast as recieved is not as expected - a slice off continuous cast 150mm square bar 20 mm thick - but sawn to 150 x 162mm the sawn edges looking to require minimal clean up. The part it is for - a bed plate - just happens to finish at 110 x 160 ! I was going to have to 'add' the extra 10 mm

I know when I am wrong and am not adversed to admittiing it if so, so once again my apologies to all concerned - humble pie duly eaten for supper tonight I can tell you.

Regards - Tug

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 31/10/2020 22:56:18

Hi Ramon, I had much the same thing, back on the 19th Sept. I ordered a piece of gauge plate, may have been from the same place as you. A week or so went buy and nothing arrived, so phoned them up and the guy asked me to wait while he checked it out, came back a moment or so and said that it been sent on the Friday and would probably take up to three days to deliver, so I gave it five days and still nothing. Gave them another call and the reply after another moment or so, was the courier had lost the item, so they would send another one and would send me a tracking number, but yes you've guess it, no tracking number and no delivery. Rang them a third time and after another check, said the courier had found it, but lost it again, so they said they would send it out again by a different courier, to which I said they would be better sending it by post and they agreed they could and I said that if it didn't arrive in the three days, I would get onto Paypal for a refund of my money, needless to say it finally arrived, albeit 3 weeks late. In the meantime I made an order with another company after my last call to the first company and the second company one arrived first and I don't think I'll be using my first choice again.

Regards Nick.

P.S. Hi Ramon, just read your post above and no I didn't use the same suppler as you have.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/10/2020 23:48:21

I get the feeling that this "Virus" is being used as an excuse to cover everything from pure laziness to pure stupidity. Considering that almost everything is handled by computers these days, I fail to see why this be.

Strange to say, the invoice for my broadband connection has no bother making its way to my door !

Given the positive response I received from the lady at M-Metals I'm afraid I leapt to the conclusion the package was from them. Wasn't until I opened it later - and after I had posted - that the red face began to rapidly manifest itself!

Like you Nicholas I had been left with the feeling that this was going to be one of those lengthy situations - something a very short communication could have prevented. And to be fair though Larry, whilst to a degree I sympathise with your view, it must be quite difficult for many to keep a business going in current times - that doesn't mean they should fall short on simple communication though.

Still as said alls well and the world moves on. Now in the final throes of quite a long (for me) project and looking forwards to seeing if what I hope is inside this slab of cast actually materialises

Happy days are here again - Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 01/11/2020 11:11:44

I have been using M-Machine Metals for all my metal supplies for years and have found them excellent, both the lady on the phone or else sometimes the chap (manager?) on the shop floor.

The only time I had a problem with delivery - it was very delayed in transit - and that was the courier acting up.

Once I needed 6mm plate, the plate supplied was just 5.5mm, mentioned it to the nice lady who said something about it maybe coming from the current unchecked batch and another piece would be checked for correct sizing and despatched FOC, and please keep the old piece! And it arrived very promptly. OK, it was only a low cost item, but it demonstrates their application and good attitude to customers.

Excellent service. (Not that it resolves Ramon's issue!!)

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 01/11/2020 11:31:54

I sometimes wonder if the advantages of the modern world cause excessive expectations. We assume everything will work 'just so' and become alarmed at the first sign of trouble.

Service was so much better when I was a lad. First you sent off a stamp addressed envelope and a small fee for a catalogue. ( Back then prices were considered too delicate for public consumption, so finding out was a chore. )

When the Catalogue arrived, one would calculate the cost, reading the small-print carefully for vital hidden details like Purchase Tax, Shipping Costs and Terms and Conditions. Next step was to write a letter explaining what was wanted and sending it off with a cheque. At the other end, the supplier would wait until the cheque cleared which took up to seven days if all went well. It didn't always go well - remember 'Refer to Drawer' rejects and other correspondence? One the seller had the money, he would check stock and maybe have to order more, before packaging the item and despatching it. There was no way a delivery company could track anything en-route, and the customer wouldn't know who had the package unless it was the GPO. Theft was a major problem and the system malfunctioned so often it was common to insure goods against loss in transit.

Much better today except we expect systems to be perfect and they're not. Perhaps 'Allow 28 days for delivery' wasn't so daft after all!

Dave

Oh, issue now happilly resolved Chris

It's good to hear these endorsements - M-Metals will certainly be my first port of call in future - very pleased to see just how much material they carry that's available to the model engineer.

Ramon

I remember those days only too well Dave - remember the Postal Order ?

I've desperately been trying to fend off the 'need' to do everything - anything - online for some time but it's a gradual losing battle and to be fair for the most part not one that's been too hard to lose. I do buy a fair bit off t'net and for most of the time that's gone well - really well - with delivery sometimes surprisingly next day.

Still haven't gone down the banking route and apart from Amazon and PayPal won't put card details in but I can see the inevitability of it all. My wife and I have just bought new mobiles - our previous ones were 'steam powered' - I have an idea what it can do but I haven't got a bloody clue as to how acheive it!

Now, I'm off to the workshop to do some fettlin' - something I do understand

Ramon

Epay does have glitches. I ordered an item a week or so since, and although I received an order confirmation, the item did not materialise. I got emails that told me the vendor could not raise an invoice. The order was subsequently cancelled and my money returned in full. I have now re-ordered and hope it works this time...

Ramon, what date was on the Invoice? May be the couriers had it for a while though would have been nice to at least have been told it had been sent. Now you are just going to have to make two

You may have a point there Jason - the 19th - day of order but no indication of day of dispatch. Makes you wonder why it couldn't be 'found' though.

No won't be two - I've decided to use the M- Metals piece for the bedplate (once it arrives) as the piece received is a lovely 38mm thick as opposed to the 20mm ordered! This will be probably used for another part (condensor)

NDIY - I have used Ebay now for quite a long time and bought many items from really small, so smallthey hardly seems worth paying for and usually with free postage to boot to others at some expense from other parts of the world . I have only had two real issues with sellers one Chinese and one UK - both resolved immediately by Ebay and money repaid. I find it a very useful aid to daily life though it is a shame it has lost it's orginal concept.

Ramon

That glitch was the first, attributed to epay, in nineteen years - and literally thousands of transactions between mine and my wife’s accounts.

Very few negatives from me, but those that only need to send an item 30 miles (and state they have stock in the UK) but take over a fortnight to deliver (from notice of despatch) are increasing my dissatisfaction with some sellers (who are clearly sourcing items only after an order is received).

Hi guys

Just to say that a package from M-Metals has just arrived - no I haven't opened it yet but they have certainly lived up to their promise.

Paradox time - need to finish what I'm doing but itching to make a start on the new project. Patience, they say, is a virtue but it can be testing at time

Regards - Ramon

PS NDIY - we're on the same page there - completely in tune with those sentiments 

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 02/11/2020 10:58:46

A recent experience with carriers whilst not with model engineering materials does demonstrate the problems one can encounter. I ordered 1,000 shotgun cartridges from an online supplier, have used them previously; delivery is usually next day if you place the order at the right time of day. This order I placed on a Wednesday afternoon so delivery by Thursday was optimistic, come Friday and the order had not materialised so on the weekend sent email to supplier querying non-arrival. Supplier replied that the order would arrive Monday afternoon, however just before lunch on the Monday I received a telephone call from the Police in a police station a few miles away asking if I had lost anything, my reply was "could be a 1,000 Shotgun Cartridges" their response was that they were sitting in their station and were clearly addressed to me so could I go and collect them. I duly collected the cartridges after having proved who I was with my Shotgun Certificate, apparently a resident the other side of our village had found them dumped on his doorstep and decided to take them to the Police for them to sort out rather than contact me, my address was clearly displayed on the four boxes of cartridges. After having retrieved the boxes from the Police Station I phoned the supplier and said that the delivery had been dumped on the other side of our village and bearing in mind the type of product and that it was a signed for delivery, for security of the product, I communicated the fact that I was unhappy as were the local Police with the way the delivery had been handled. The supplier did refund the carriage charge in light of the fact that I had to travel some miles to collect the cartridges. The network of carriers that now carry a huge amount of deliverable items are only as good as the weakest link in the chain and that so often is the final delivery driver, who is usually a person whose first language is not English and is probably paid barely the minimum wage and in some cases below the minimum so it is understandable that sometimes deliveries will go wrong. Of course some carriers perform better than others but items getting lost in the system happens all too frequently.

Dave W

If you don't mind me asking - how do you go about ordering from M Metals? Looking at the website I don't see any online ordering facility (or indeed any way of making an online payment) - is it back to the old way of requesting a pro-forma invoice?

Edited By Rob McSweeney on 02/11/2020 17:51:52