What to buy

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Isn't this the same question? Hobbymat, Taig and Sherline are all uncomfortably small for 2 1/2" gauge. If buying new for £700 a C3 sized mini-lathe is the obvious choice.

Dave

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If you want non-Chinese AND the ability to make Clocks and a 2 1/2 inch gauge loco ... You will almost certainly need to buy secondhand.

As a self-professed newcomer: Do you have the knowledge to assess the condition of a used lathe, and the time/ability/enthusiasm to refurbish it if needs be ?

Take some time to think about what you really want to do.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 26/05/2019 23:05:51

What's the problem with something made in China? You seem pretty vehemently opposed to it.

Each to their own, but I don't think we would buy much if we chose not to buy Chinese! It's a different world now, England is no longer the "workshop of the world"!

Ah with you. It's a hobby, done for fun, and therefore important to be happy with your tools! But rejecting Far Eastern means you either have to increase your budget or start a careful search of the second-hand market.

One problem buying second-hand is a shortage of lathes in the size you want! And, because they are getting long in the tooth, finding one in tip-top condition gets harder with every passing year. It's not impossible, for example relatives doing a house-clearance might let a good lathe go for a song because they're in a hurry. Otherwise, dealers and insiders snap them up while auctions tend to push prices up. Second-hand Myfords are - I think - overpriced because there are quite a few chaps like you chasing them, except they have deeper pockets.

I feel the bigger lathes, Boxford, Colchester, Harrison etc, are excellent value for money compared with Myfords. Large numbers of them on sale because manual lathes have been pushed out by CNC in industry and education. Many of them in good condition. There's always a downside - they're physically and electrically big and the cost of spares is often eye-watering.

My main regret is not getting a lathe earlier. Just before marriage I had an painful misadventure attempting to buy a Myford (it wasn't), and then family & work commitments kept me away from a fantastic hobby until just before retirement. Then I went into dither-mode, second-hand vs Chinese, for far too long. Eventually I twigged I was more interested in learning and making things than searching for the Holy Grail of Lathes. A big advantage of Chinese machines is the delay between ordering and delivery is measured in days (provided it's in stock), and you have total control over weight, power, size, metric vs imperial etc. But don't buy one if they upset you - I see mine as a disposable tool, which doesn't suit everyone.

Dave

Edit: the cat sent the first draft by tap dancing on my keyboard.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 27/05/2019 09:54:15

I know where you are coming from Haggerleases. A far eastern machine will doubtless do everything you ask of it .

They are made down to a price and that is reflected in the build quality. The finish and feel of the finer details can be somewhat lacking and hard to accept for some of us.

At the end of the day the machine is a means to an end (a tool) to create something that IS pleasing and satisfies the desire for perfection with which many of us are afflicted.

Adrian.

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Have a look at Excel machines in Coventry. They do a huge range and still do some small lathes. I bought one in the mid 80's in the days when they had a stand at the Model Engineering Show, and it came with everything as standard. Not sure about that now but I'm well pleased with mine.

Nowt wrong wi' Chinese; what space do you have; have you taken into consideration tooling costs, that could well end up more than the cost of the machine, as many of us can verify. If I had the room I would have seriously looked at Boxford, Colchester Student, Harrison 250 / 300 et al. Chester, Warco, Axminister often advertise 'open' days for prospective customers, if you are near to any of those it would be worth going & have a look, ask questions, try one out etc.

I have a WM250V-F & a WM16 & both have done what I have given them without complaint, remember the old cliché 'can't get a Rolls Royce for a mini price'. There is a lot of 'Tat' out there & admittedly most is from China but they must account for at least 80% of world trade, followed by, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Pakistan, India, Bangla Desh, somewhere in there is Europe, now Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodia, are in the market too; would their goods 'stick in your craw' too ?. Have a look at what you / your Mrs bought from M & S, John Lewis, Barker & Stonehouse, even Primark, Wilko, Pound land, look at their label... 'Made in / product of…..one of the above !. Usual disclaimer applies for all ref.

Whatever you end up with I'm sure you'll be happy with, & with what you make, after all it's a hobby, enjoy,

I'll put my hat & coat on now...

George

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Impressive catalogue: **LINK**

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/c6e82a6b/files/uploaded/EXCEL%20CATALOGUE%202019%20WEB.pdf

MichaelG.

Worth understanding that Chinese Lathes are based on Western best practice as it developed before and after WW2. Early lathes favoured curves, perhaps because so much cast-iron was used, but lathe design gradually modernised in favour of simple strength, safety, and manufacturing convenience. On these machines the customer doesn't pay for complicated moulds, awkward assembly, rigidity achieved by randomly adding weight, or hand-fitting. The resulting boxy look isn't Chinese, it's functional. The lurid colours are also European best practice! It dates back to the 1930's when it was discovered that productivity is higher in clean well-lit factories with bright contrasting colours (within reason!). Victorian owners preferred black machines and tiny windows because it hid the dirt; this is a false economy.

Backlash may not matter much. The machine you tried was probably poorly adjusted rather than worn out. But, it's usually simple to compensate for backlash, whatever the cause. On a manual milling machine a DRO makes backlash almost irrelevant. Backlash is more worrying on a second-hand quality machine because it may mean the machine is generally worn across the board. That's much more difficult to fix than sloppy Chinese finish.

These days it's really difficult to pin down where anything is actually manufactured. Because most 'stuff' can be made anywhere, it's best to manufacture wherever it happens to be cheapest at the moment, and that changes. Hobbymats were originally made in a country and economic system that no longer exists. Wouldn't surprise me to find the latest generation are still made in Germany or the Far East, or Mexico, or Italy, or South Africa, or ...

Remember the 'Buy British' campaign of the sixties? Difficult to do today because most of the ordinary things of life are made abroad. Still plenty of successful British manufacturing going on, but it's high-end rather than household goods.

Dave

Hi

I really don't want to get into the Chinese versus British debate, but if you want a British built machine that's not too big or expensive, could I suggest you have a look at the Myford ML10.

I had a friend, now sadly long gone, who built a Rob Roy, several 21/2" gauge loco's and sundry Stuart engines on one, all in a tiny indoor workshop, they seem to be much cheaper than ML7/Super 7, and most of the accessories fit.

By their nature many of them have only been used in hobby workshops.

I was always very impressed with the little machine, I also know folk who turn out superb work on mini lathes, and people who turn out nothing at all in extremely well equipped workshops with every attachment known to man!

A lot depends on the bloke turning the handles!

Just a suggestion.

Dave

PS if you've got room Boxfords always seem a bargain to me.

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Basic Sherline with just a 3-jaw chuck comes in over budget at £732. By the time you have added a faceplate, 4-jaw, fixed & traveling steadys well over 1K. All these items tend to come as standard on a far eastern machine.

Good Compact 5 with the same items will be hard to find within budget and then there are all those trips to look at second hand machines that will burn up as much fuel as a container ship load. then there is the cost of second hand parts & accesories and the dwindling availability of spares to consider. Similar can be said about the U3.

Maybe stick to an old English machine that was built when we had smog worse that a far eastern industrial area. And it will have been built with virgin iron ore, at least a fare eastern machine has a good proportion of recycled scrap iron.

Having had two Austrian made Emco's before my far eastern machine the quality of the work coming off that is better than the Emcos

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