By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Forum House Ad Zone

Unused Xmas Gift

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
BOB BLACKSHAW04/02/2019 12:21:11
501 forum posts
132 photos

I was given a face mill with four gold coloured inserts and have not used it as I'm not sure if it will be any use to me.

I have used the one blade type with HSS tool on aluminium and have found it quite satisfactory with good results.

With this face mill if I face steel which is under the dia of the tool would the inserts chip, as I found on the lathe that when turning steel round with a flat the insert chipped.

With aluminium this did not happen as its soft, what minimum size steel can this face mill do with out the inserts chipping.

I would have a go but I don't want to damage the inserts, hope this makes sense.

Thanks Bob

Mick B104/02/2019 12:46:52
2444 forum posts
139 photos

Milling inserts are always going to have to withstand impact as they come round into contact. I'd try starting with light cuts on alli, then brass, then mild steel progressively. If they do chip, they're not going to be very useful anyway.

Mark Rand04/02/2019 13:38:20
1505 forum posts
56 photos

More of a problem can be the hammering that the milling machine spindle splines get with the intermittent load. Not so much of a problem on new machines, but I'm slowly getting through making a new drive shaft for my early '60s Beaver machine because the 9° of slack in the splines really makes the machine shake when any cutters are partly engaged, shell/face mills especially.

SillyOldDuffer04/02/2019 13:45:54
10668 forum posts
2415 photos

I think the only way to find out is to try it!

Multi-insert face-mills have been available for many years and I don't recall any general complaints about them being more likely to chip inserts than any other type of tool-holder.

The nervousness about chipping carbide is partly folk memory and partly real. Carbide inserts usually consist of many small particles of a very hard material like Tungsten Carbide bonded together in a matrix. Not solid - more like the grit in a grinding wheel than HSS. The matrix is usually a metal. Early inserts were brittle, but they've been gradually improved over the last 80 years or so. Modern formulations are much less brittle. Unfortunately, one way of reducing the cost of inserts is to cheapen the matrix material and to cut down on the amount of carbide in the mix. This might be done by a reputable maker selling tips for work not requiring high shock resistance, or it might be done less honestly because low-cost matters more to the customer than high-performance. Another issue is manufacturing rejects - a batch of inserts might fail shock-testing and be sold-off as 'unbranded'.

My experience with cheap inserts has been generally acceptable - most are happy to take interrupted cuts. But about 20% of my inexpensive stock have failed prematurely - especially sharp ones and threading tips. The very worst were bought cheap at an exhibition: opening the box a few months later I discovered them to be obvious rejects, they work - but not reliably. Inserts bought from the usual suspects on the forum are OK rather than brilliant, but for my lightweight hobby needs top-quality inserts aren't economic.

We don't know if the inserts that came with your tool are good or rubbish! I've had new tools come with inferior inserts and new tools arrive fitted with good ones. Can't tell by looking but cutting steel will soon give the answer.

Another point is whether or not a 4-point tool is useful in your particular workshop. The advantage is they can remove metal at high-speed but that may not suit your equipment. A mill driving four cutting points needs a good deal more power and rigidity than one spinning a single-point tool, and a hobby mill might not have the ommph necessary to get the best out of a 4-point cutter. Again, I think you can only find out by trying it. Depending on the mill you might find it's great for Brass, Aluminium and Cast-iron but steel is too much.

Dave

duncan webster04/02/2019 14:47:53
5307 forum posts
83 photos

If it's one of these 

I've got one fitted with a 2MT shank on my Centec, and it works a treat. I'm gentle with it, 0.03 depth of cut, 800 rpm and 8" per minute feed rate. Gives a very good finish on steel. The tips that came with it are absolute rubbish, not even flat on the back where they bolt up, but they work, I haven't chipped one yet. When I've used up the stock that came with it I'll buy some decent ones. Even with the small depth of cut it is shifting metal as quickly as a smaller cutter going more slowly. You do need cotton overalls and safety glasses, the chips are hot and fly everywhere

Edited By JasonB on 04/02/2019 14:57:08

BOB BLACKSHAW04/02/2019 17:01:42
501 forum posts
132 photos

Thanks for the replies, its the same as last post Duncans, so will give it a try.

As for the inserts are they standard APMT 1604, how can you tell good from rubbish quality, or is it down to cost, but as stated by Dave, try them first.

Bob

Dave Halford04/02/2019 18:11:17
2536 forum posts
24 photos

Any insert will chip if you stall or stop the machine in a cut.

It's not down to cost unless you run a machining center, your hobby machine hasn't the power to make the difference noticeable.

I tried a very cheap set of 12mm CCMT tools, came with 10 inserts and tried a destruction test with the boring bar on a 9 3/4" wheel rim running on a 10" lathe. I got chips coming off as sparks which the coating stood up to for 10 minutes before the varidrive belt slipped and chipped the tool.

Edited By Dave Halford on 04/02/2019 19:02:29

JasonB04/02/2019 18:48:13
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles

Have a look at my posts in this thread to see what a difference some decent inserts made to one of these cheap facemills.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Sign up to our Newsletter

Sign up to our newsletter and get a free digital issue.

You can unsubscribe at anytime. View our privacy policy at www.mortons.co.uk/privacy

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
cowells
Sarik
MERIDIENNE EXHIBITIONS LTD
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

 

Donate

donate