Cyclone Vacuum Separator

I have recently bought a Shop-Vac **LINK** vacuum cleaner for collecting swarf and chips of my lathe and mill. With it's 1800w motor found it up to the job for cleaning the mess specially after milling with all those chips in the t-slots etc...however, this morning I opened the vac to check the bag and found that the bag had ruptured. Probably it was the combined effects of sharp swarf and oil that caused it to tear.

I read about cyclone separators used inline with a vacuum cleaner to collect debris inside the separator rather than inside the vac itself...anyone used something similar before or knows if it's effective for our usage?

I recently bought a dust deputy add on for my old Rowenta vacuum. I think its excellent ,collects wood dust plaster dust, swarf ,etc.....

You get no noticiable drop in suction at all that ive noticed,like using a new vacuum all the time.

You have to attach it to the side of the vacuum by drilling two holes but it wasnt a problem in my case . The vacuum you bought may be more difficult to attach one though as it doesnt look too high .

I had been after one of these for ages but wasnt impressed with the price ,but finally succumbed when there was a sale on.

I work with some tropical hardwoods and the less contact with dust the better for me.

I bought a new filter for the rowenta before fitting the dust deputy and the filter has almost nothing on it after a few months use. I hated cleaning those pleated paper cylinder filters.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 30/08/2018 19:38:02

These are very good and can be made if need be. They also don't need to be attached to the vac but ideally fitted onto a cart with the vac so it can be moved about or as many people do mount it in a corner of the room if you have a extraction system running around the workshop but that later method really is better for wood workshops. There is another one which can be made of a different design if I can find it I will post a link.

This type of thing but you may need to use different materials as you will be collecting swarf.

Edited By Derek Lane 2 on 30/08/2018 20:34:52

For metal swarf and chips one of the add-on "ash-vac" canisters may well suffice. Anything that gets through into the vacuum cleaner proper will most likely not be capable of damaging the bag.

My shop cleaner is one of the older, industrial, metal bodied Henry style machines. I just use whatever Numatic fit bags are cheap when I'm down to the last one in the box and have yet to damage a bag in maybe 15 years use. I pack them pretty tight too! But I do do pretty good large swarf and large floor debris sweep up before waking the shop vac up. I guess around 2 large dog food bags full of big scarf to every Numatic bag full of small swarf & floor debris.

Clive

Clive, I am not sure what a “add on ‘ash-vac’ canister” is. Could you Indicate where I can get more details. I have seen the cyclone separators advertised on their own to be placed on a drum and then with a hose to a vacuum and am interested in seeing if it will suite my workshop.

Thanks

Martyn

Martyn

Ash vac canister is essentially an auxiliary collection drum with its own pick up hose connected to the normal vacuum cleaner hose. Usually both hose connections go onto the lid. Allegedly the arrangement of the hoses and internal baffles, if any, create a cyclone effect causing lightweight ash and soot to drop out of the airstream into the can so only clean, or nearly clean, air goes back into the vacuum cleaner. If ash and soot drops out presumably heavier swarf will. Wouldn't trust it with wood dust tho'.

Seem to be several breeds, and wide range of prices, but this :- **LINK** looks pretty typical albeit at the expensive end. Can also be got with motor which rather defeats the cheap'n cheefful objective. Google search turns up plenty of candidates.

I have a cheap motorised one from LiDL which seems to do fairly well at the cyclone bit as most of the ash and soot ends up in the can. Filter does need cleaning fairly regular tho'.

Clive

I've just purchased one of these: Y4AAOSwDehbd9wk - which seems to be a Chinese version of the Dust Deputy ( but it seems well made and pretty solid)

It wasn't expensive but I haven't rigged it up as yet as I need to get a bucket with a tight lid for it. I already have a metal bodied 'Henry' in my shed but according to the YouTubes I've watched - these things seem to extract most of the rubbish/dust before it gets to the actual 'sucker' ... I guess I'll find out once the bucket arrives....

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 31/08/2018 00:06:28

Mmmnn - I thought that eBay link might look a bit tidier - like "Link" (obviously not figured that out yet..)

IanT

Made this one from a sheet of galvanised iron - 0.8mm. The Vac unit was originally a motor/centrifugal fan mounted on a trolley with a linen bag into which all the guff was dumped. Very inefficient and dusty, esp with wood work.

The fan unit just sits on top of the cone, with a door seal foam strip as seal. The large drum below collects all the stuff. Really only used for woodwork, as it is piped to all the wood machines, but I do cut a lot of aluminium sheet on the radial arm saw, so some 'metal' swarf goes in..

Very easy to make a small one from galv. sheet steel, more suited to metal work machinery.

There is a useful book:

Woodshop Dust Control, by Sandor Nagyszalanczy ( yes...) - the concepts are applicable to any cyclone type seperator, so ok for metal swarf too.

Folk have even made the cone section from one of those 'road works in progress' road marking plastic cones - maybe open you door as you drive past and loan one...(not really..)

The cone type separate using the change in velocity of particles from the top of the cyclone down to the bottom. A simpler separator, basically just a drum with the inlet of to the side ( the upper section in my photo) relies on centripetal force to push the particles to the outer part of the drum, where gravity does its job after a while.

Both types do really work well.

Joe

(edits just typo's..- Strange how reading the pre-posted text again and again shows no typo's, and when posted, a single re-read pops out the typo out right away! I suspect the Forum Web Host inserts typo's just for the hell of it..)

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 31/08/2018 09:41:03

I just use one of those inline Vacuum cleaner ones. What I like about it, is the clearish container. It is easy to take off and empty. If I suck up a little part, it is not so hard to find.

I used to have a bigger 25 L bucket with cyclone thing. But prefer the smaller unit that is easier to handle.

Neil

This is what I have now. My actual one is made by Hoover, this is a knock off, but is the same thing.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32mm-Dust-Interceptor-Vacuum-Bag-Cyclonic-Separator-Collector-Dust-Outer-Filter/32669606014.html

Edited By Neil Lickfold on 31/08/2018 10:54:09

For those that like to read about extraction and also for information THIS site is well worth a visit.

Derek beat me to that link. Looks very interesting despite a certain air of "I'm the only guy that knows what he is talking about". The issue with cyclones is always sizing for fine dust. Generally the finer the dust the bigger the cyclone has to be.

Comments on the efficiency of the simple trash-can aka ash-vac canister are interesting. Pity Bill doesn't give a bit more detail as to efficiency against particle size. I suspect that for most dust significantly larger than dangerous to breath sizes there isn't much advantage in using a cyclone. Cant help wondering if there is some sort of internal baffling that could be added to a can type separator to improve performance. One obvious point where the simple bucket type falls down is having the same size holes on inlet and outlet. Seems to me that the outlet should be much larger to reduce air velocity out of the can which ought to make dust carry-over harder. Presumably a suitable tapered adapter piece between can and vacuum hose would be fine to get the speed back up for normal routes of flow once past the dust carry over point.

Clive

In France, we used an in-line ash collector for cleaning out the wood burner cinders. Nothing so fancy as a cyclone jobby, just a can with a hose coming out of the top and a rubber sealing joint in the top where you put the vacuum cleaner hose. No bags to rip, simple and cheap. 'Course, if you can't get one in the UK, France might be a bit of a stretch. Easy enough to cobble one together I'd have thought, out of a large, [empty], paint container.

John

Edit:  Just had a look on line - Screwfix do a Karcher version - at Karcher prices - £40 a pop.

Edited By John Hinkley on 31/08/2018 12:18:37

John

Karcher can doesn't get a very good review in other places. Comments I saw suggest it was just drawn and made to look the part, not designed to work well without shooting dust everywhere.

Lots of devil in the detail when it comes to something easy to handle come opening time with the dust staying inside not blowing everywhere.

Clive.

My experience with a dust extractor years ago was that small sharp splinters were well able to punch their way through the heavy plastic bag,so that after a while,the bag looked like an add for "Band Aid"

Oak and Maple seemed to be the worst.

Never tried it with swarf [dont make enough of it !}

I made a system consisting of a 12 gallon drum (ex bulk detergent), made a removable top from MDF, put two holes in the top, one to take the hose from the vacuum cleaner, the other to take the input hose.

Ian S C

Thanks for all the replys gents, it's clear I was not the only one with the issue! Think I'll get myself one of these : **LINK** not expensive at £20 and free shipping, will see how it goes from there.

Acquire a clapped out dyson vac cleaner and put the collector in line with your vac cleaner or just run the line through a large receptacle where dense objects will fall from the slowed air stream (or stopped by impact with the side of the bucket/barrel). No real hassle for large chips, but fine cast iron dust might block the vac cleaner bag.

I don’t use a dust bag in my wet/dry vac. Just a large bag over the wide outlet screen to stop the fine particles re-entering the workshop atmosphere.

Metal chips and sawdust need different approaches.

You can find them on top of statues in most university towns.

Neil

I suspect a brewing bucket and some time with a 3D printer might make an effective cyclone for occasional use.